Author Topic: Oil Pressure ?  (Read 1698 times)

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Offline maxheadflow

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2022, 05:40:07 PM »
I've pretty much always used 20w-50 castrol GTX.   I know the API requirements have changed some but back in the 70s that is all we used at the dealership.  Been using it for the last 5000 miles on my CB750k8.. No issues.. Also ran it in my 2002 XR400R for 18 years.  What constitutes a high detergent oil?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2022, 07:01:11 AM »
I've pretty much always used 20w-50 castrol GTX.   I know the API requirements have changed some but back in the 70s that is all we used at the dealership.  Been using it for the last 5000 miles on my CB750k8.. No issues.. Also ran it in my 2002 XR400R for 18 years.  What constitutes a high detergent oil?

Your K8 was designed to use an oil that had high zinc content for trans gears and tappet follower cam component longevity.  Does your GTX modern formulation still have that high zinc content?  Or was it drastically reduced to comply with regs needed for modern cars with roller cams and catalytic converters? 

One of the notices many brands leave in the fine print is that they maintain the right to change the internal formulation (additive package) at will and for any reason without any labeling change To the consumer.  One of the reasons why brand loyalty is undeserved, IMO.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2022, 09:20:30 AM »
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Castrol-GTX-Classic-20W-50-Conventional-Motor-Oil-5-Quarts/751818585

Looks good.  Just don't take it it California.  You'll get cancer. You have been Prop 65 warned...  ;-)

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2022, 07:14:14 PM »
1-w40 oil is too light for a CB750, if that's what you are asking about.
Use never less than 15w40 diesel-rated oils, 20w50 is much better. Avoid detergent oils in the 750.

Sentence 2 & 3 are conflicting.  Use never less than “15w40 diesel-rated oils, …. Avoid detergent oils……🤔

Diesel oils are some of the highest detergent oils made, excepting perhaps Mobil 1…..
Detergent oils are known to neutralize acids and prevent oxidation and corrosions…

Even Shell’ AeroShell” non detergent 65 - 120 oil designed for piston engines (not non detergent hydraulic oil) is only recommended for break in for new or newly rebuilt. It’s been along time since the no oil filter engine days….

Even Honda originally included dg & dm (detergent diesel oils of the day) recommendations in their service manuals.

What non detergent oils of today are currently rated for flat tappet type camshafts or diesels  ?

🤔

Shell's Rotella diesel is one good, low-detergent oil, and there are others. If you use high-detergent oils in diesel engines it can cause them to not be able to shut off, even when the Emergency Stop air dam has been dropped, if the engine is running hard and fast. The foaming oil becomes a fuel for the engine. We learned about that with 2400 HP frac engines in the 1980s when I was then directed to create halon-injection systems to guarantee E-stops when someone had installed the wrong oil by accident. It happened more than once! I can't even begin to describe how dangerous the situation was that this scenario created, but as it ended, I had 2 more 'backup' systems behond those to ensure shutdowns. That worked, and still works today. ;)

I don't understand why you would install a halon system to chop a diesel where a gate valve does a better job and you can buy them ready made for most intakes. Or, just slap a piece of plywood over the intake opening and it dies toute suite.

Not to mention, firing off a halon system requires hours of paperwork afterwards. We had halon fire suppression systems on all our choppers and fast movers and when one fired off accidentally (maintenance, not inhibited, tech not paying attention to which button/lever, etc) we would all let out a collective groan because we knew there was going to be hours and hours of environmental impact paperwork, investigations, interviews, etc.

I've never heard of a runaway diesel because it had a high detergent oil in the crankcase and I've worked on diesels for a good 35+ years. Sure, crankcase oil will burn in a diesel, but there's no way for it to get into the combustion chamber unless there a mechanical fault somewhere.

Not trying to bust your B's, but none of that makes any sense to me......

👍 Exactly….Read my mind….

Only engine I’ve seen run on its blow-by had over 600,000 miles. A VW rabbit engine, a whole 52hp NA diesel…
It would only “idle” on its blow-by and not shut off. The owner rerouted the hose to the atmosphere, stayed out of California, and it shut off without holding something over the snorkel hole.. A far cry from a 2,400hp engine that would probably consume the Rabbit’s WFO fuel delivery at an idle…

The halon systems I’ve seen on heavy equipment were on coal (ignitable dust) equipment, and they utilized high rpm automatically triggered intake air shutoff valves…similar setup to what the larger modern diesel trenchers use to keep from runaway rpm if it cut through buried gas or fuel lines, excepting no halon systems….

Surely there must have been a direct path to the intake. A bad turbo or supercharger oil seal was common back in the day…
Old 2cycle Detroit’s had their intake air shut down valve incorporated in the GMC blower housing. No compromising of the air filter system that way….

I still don’t know of any “low detergent”  Rotella. Shell is constantly bragging about their “triple protection additives” ability to keep class8 engines like new clean….🤔
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Online PeWe

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2022, 01:50:58 AM »
That high zink Castrol seems to be advertised as a classic car oil. What about wet clutch?

The Castrol Classic oil for cars and motorcycles around here:
https://www.classicoils.co.uk/engine

Read the data, PDS.
!! Wet clutches exluded!!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 01:55:50 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline maxheadflow

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2022, 06:11:01 AM »
Ok at first TwoTired is saying you need zinc in a Honda Motor and now you are saying you shouldn't use it.. What is the  answer?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 06:14:07 AM by maxheadflow »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2022, 06:22:17 AM »
If you are using it and your clutch isn’t slipping, you’re likely ok with it.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Online PeWe

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2022, 07:11:48 AM »
No problems with zinc and wet clutches. It can be other additives they had added to make oil slippery for extra glide and protection.

I have not seen any clutch slip with Red Line motorcycle oil or Spectro Mineral. Both 20W-50 oils with higher levels of zinc and phosporous.
Both specified to function with wet clutches. I'm sure there are oils without JASO on the label that can work fine.

The Castrol classic oil I found is written to not work with wet clutches by Castrol themselves. There are many old classic bikes that have separate gearbox so no issues for them using this Castrol motor oil.

Reminds me  about when I purchased Lucas Hot Rod classic  mineral oil with lots of the good zinc too.

I later read the small text about slippery stuff like moly.
A friend with a 356 replica powered by a modified buggy engine had better use of that oil.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 08:16:15 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Maltboy

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2022, 07:13:21 AM »
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Castrol-GTX-Classic-20W-50-Conventional-Motor-Oil-5-Quarts/751818585

Funny, this is the same oil I use in my old air-cooled beetle. Is this good for wet clutch applications too?

EDIT:  I guess it would help if I read all the posts and the product info!
*NOT FOR USE IN MODERN ENGINES WITH CATALYTIC CONVERTERS OR WET CLUTCH APPLICATIONS
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 07:15:39 AM by Maltboy »

Offline Maltboy

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2022, 07:27:49 AM »
A friend with a 356 replica powered by a modified buggy engine had better use of that oil.

My dream car.  Preferably a kit car powered by Subaru.

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2022, 07:58:08 AM »
Engine oil, one of the best subjects to spark a lively debate!!
Next we should try car/motorcycle wax!!
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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2022, 08:20:09 AM »
It was a good beginning with a possible good alternative.

Back in the 70' early 80's before cathalytic converter, most oils with OK viscocity worked fine. Just grab them on the shelf.

It seems that the oil companies have woken up for restorers of old bikes and cars oil needs.
"Not for cathalytic converters" is a good sign for our bikes.
Old  API class another one.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 08:39:13 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Online PeWe

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2022, 08:35:23 AM »
A friend with a 356 replica powered by a modified buggy engine had better use of that oil.

My dream car.  Preferably a kit car powered by Subaru.
I have seen other VW rebuilds with Subaro engine on TV.
That can deliver lots of power.

My friend's 356 replica has rather OK  power now with dual webers and more displacement closer to 2 litre.
Electronic programmable  ignition has entered this season.
Fuel injection and ported heads to be installed and later followed by a turbo.

The car is rather light. Speedster version.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 10:56:14 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline tourmax

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Re: Oil Pressure ?
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2022, 08:38:44 AM »
Rotella t6 still has zinc additives, if it concerns you. 1200PPM : https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/info-hub/diesel-pickup-and-other-vehicle-faq.html
1989 FJ1200, 1983 Yamaha Venture (Vmax conversion), 1985 VF 750F Interceptor, 1982 CB650SC, 1988 Corvette convertible (Z52), 1983 Mustang GT, 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman.Couple more lying around but this is long enough already!