Author Topic: CB550 Four K3 1979  (Read 9103 times)

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Offline Cruiser

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #75 on: August 02, 2022, 07:30:50 AM »
Make certain you use an oil with a JASO MA or MA 1 rating.  This is compatible with wet clutches and has the correct friction modifiers for cam components.

MA2 not good?
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #76 on: August 02, 2022, 09:52:26 AM »
Make certain you use an oil with a JASO MA or MA 1 rating.  This is compatible with wet clutches and has the correct friction modifiers for cam components.

MA2 not good?

It's good oil for it's intended application.

MA-2 was developed for motorcycles with catalytic converters.  So it will have more exotic friction modifiers in it instead of stuff that SOHC4 cam components last longer by using.  Heavy metals like zinc poison Catalytic converters.  But, zinc has long been used to give longer life to flat tappet cams.  Lots of modern motors have switched to roller cams that don't need the zinc for long life.

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #77 on: August 08, 2022, 02:45:43 AM »
I decided I'm going to remove the top end of the engine anyway. After some inspection I noticed one of the intake valves looking dodgy. Probably also to reason why my first compression check I did when I saw the bike was low.

Looks like a part of the valve itself has a missing chunk. I don't want to risk it any further like this and figured that opening it up would be the best way to go.

I've added a picture (which is actually zoomed in on the photo itself, so forgive the bad quality) where you can see the possible damage.

Looks like a really weird place to get damage as well imo.
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #78 on: November 11, 2022, 05:46:41 AM »



[...] If you do ever remove the exhausts they may well rattle!
I see no reason to remove the exhausts yet, but when you do it, make sure you have sufficient cushions right underneath them to absorp the impact, because - no matter your level of concentration - you will drop them! And if they didn't rattle before, they will now. ;D

Coming back on this, today I removed the exhausts since I'm doing a top end rebuild anyway (need to replace a valve). Took the exhausts off (didn't drop them ) but they rattle anyway. Probably the previous owner dropped them or something inside came loose. Anything I can do against this now I have them off?

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Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #79 on: June 12, 2023, 04:03:18 AM »
Been a while since I posted an update...

I opened the engine up, as I thought one of the valves was bad, but I didn't stop there I figured since I'm in here, I'll inspect the pistons as well. Glad I did. 3 out of 4 pistons had broken rings. After cleaning it all up, and measuring all the pistons and the cylinder itself, I found that the cylinders where still good, pistons already had a bit of life behind them (original, 62.000km's on them). The pistons itself didn't look that bad, and the wear on the sides was good, however the side clearance of the rings were too much (0.40mm at some points). So the pistons had to be replaced. Ordered some new ones, installed the new rings, new gaskets. After that I went onto the inspection of the cam chain guide and the tensioner. As you can see in the pictures, the cam chain guide also had its life behind it... This was no longer a guide, just a flat plate missing the "guide" ridge. The tensioner also had some issues, the teeth of the mechanism were fine, however the slots where the teeth should go in were worn and so the tensioner would just spring back into its original state. So it was not working as it should.

Needless to say I replaced both.

I also replaced the valve and as we speak the cylinder head is at a shop where they will give it a good overhaul. Make sure its flat and redo all the valves to make sure those are closing as they should. I should be getting back the cylinder head at the end of the week or maybe next week.

After that I'm ready to close the engine again and then get the rest of the parts back on the bike (Carbs/Airbox).

I'm also still thinking about a small hole that exists on the bottom of one of the exhausts. People tell me you can't really weld these chrome pipes properly... But I'm not keen on letting a piece of rust on these either (located just under the bike, after the bend going under the engine). Especially since these are the original exhausts and look great apart from this little patch.

Front brake has been rebuild as well and rear brakes have been inspected. The only thing I'd like to do before firing it back up, is to install the electronic ignition. The current points are pitted and frankly it was cheaper getting the electronic one over new parts for the standard one. The only thing I'm left with today is figuring out the wiring. All tutorial's I've seen, tell me that I should connect the electronic ignition on the cables around the airbox, however my cabling seems to go from the current ignition all the way back to the front of the bike. Without any splits. So I'm a bit in the dark there.

In case anyone has more info on that, I'm happy to hear it :).
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #80 on: June 12, 2023, 04:06:47 AM »
Images won't upload in previous post, so I'll try again separately.
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BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline bryanj

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #81 on: June 12, 2023, 05:03:09 AM »
Yellow and blue points wires should have a connection in the rubber boot by the rear brake pedal that the brakelight switch wires go into as well. You can use the black wire in there as power for the electronic as it is switched power.
READ THE BOOK about fitting the cam cover carefully, then read it again repeatedly until you fully understand it or you will bend valves and break valve guides.
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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2023, 05:22:17 AM »
"So the pistons had to be replaced. Ordered some new ones, installed the new rings, new gaskets."

I hope you bought oversized pistons and rings and had it bored for them..... the bottom of the cylinders usually egg shape and have too much slop not to bore them fresh to oversized pistons and rings.

Your exhaust rattle is most likely rusted baffles in the exhaust coming loose, not from dropping them.
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My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2023, 05:32:31 AM »
Got to rubber band the rocket arms up with adjuster backed off when fitting top cover or you will damage the valves.

A little confused about your pistons...  You are replacing pistons but not machining the bore. The cylinders drift off line of straight until the metal in the cylinders stabilize causing a either 5-10% loss in hp according to HondaMan. Forget which it was 5 or 10%... It is likely you need an alignment bore of your cylinders and need to go up one size to 1st overbore, unless it has already been bored. The metal of cylinders stabilizes after breaking and doesn't drift further, so the align bore job will restore that missing hp. If you are measuring wear it is not going to be isolated to just your pistons. Best to get a machine shop measure your bores as the often wear a bit egg shaped. Unless you have a very low mileage motor, it would be worth addressing that as you likely have piston and bore wear, not to mention the drift of alignment of the piston bores which robs some hp.
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Offline Cruiser

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #84 on: June 12, 2023, 05:47:22 AM »
Cylinders have been measured up, all fell within spec by quite some margin and there was no noticable egg shape to be seen.

So I had that covered ;)

Concerning the wires going to the rear brake, I only have 2 wires, 1 black and one green (with a yellow stripe).

The 2 wires going from the existing ignition (going all the way up to the front) are brown and blue).

So not sure yet what I need to do with those to get that electronic ignition on.

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2023, 08:43:56 AM »
Turned my attention to the exhausts today. They look quite good in my opinion (some before and after shots attached here). Just still a bit worried about the hole I have on the bottom. Any ideas on that (picture was a pre cleanup one, and the hole has a total length of 1cm, 3mm wide)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 08:46:39 AM by Cruiser »
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline dave500

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #86 on: June 14, 2023, 12:00:17 AM »
did you have the bores honed?

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #87 on: June 14, 2023, 03:31:09 AM »
Yes, cylinders have been inspected and are in good condition. Max deviance was 0,01mm (if you want to talk abouy egg shape) and they had plenty of cross hatchting. They had a quick hone as well.

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Offline Deltarider

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2023, 07:32:01 AM »
Yellow and blue points wires should have a connection in the rubber boot by the rear brake pedal that the brakelight switch wires go into as well. You can use the black wire in there as power for the electronic as it is switched power.
[...]
That's possible, but realise the ignition is ON as soon as the key switch is in ON position. Personally I like to have the possibility to switch the IGN OFF by the kill switch - like when I do repairs/maintenance - this to avoid a possible overheating of the coils.
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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #89 on: June 14, 2023, 07:35:05 AM »
So the wiring harnass doesn't seem to be stock (I think). I followed the wire from the contactbreaker all the way to the coils.

If I understand correctly, they should be spliced around where the rear brake stop switch. However mine seem to go all the way to the coils and are spliced up there (also changing wire colors *sigh* you can see the original yellow/blue here going into blue/brown).

So I assume the easiest will be to splice them around the rear brake stop switch, insert some bullet connectors and reuse the cable going from coil untill rear brake stop switch (wich is integrated in the wire harnass). There I can then connect the electronic contact breaker and attach the ground on the rear brake switch (this is is spliced correctly).

I wonder what this bike has lived through every time I work on it

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« Last Edit: June 14, 2023, 07:37:15 AM by Cruiser »
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #90 on: June 14, 2023, 07:44:04 AM »
Yellow and blue points wires should have a connection in the rubber boot by the rear brake pedal that the brakelight switch wires go into as well. You can use the black wire in there as power for the electronic as it is switched power.
[...]
That's possible, but realise the ignition is ON as soon as the key switch is in ON position. Personally I like to have the possibility to switch the IGN OFF by the kill switch - like when I do repairs/maintenance - this to avoid a possible overheating of the coils.

You mean you would take power from another location then the rear brake switch? And if so, from where? Since this appears to be different then stock, I can probably try to come from somewhere else with the power.
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline Deltarider

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #91 on: June 14, 2023, 01:30:09 PM »
I can only explain it with my homebuilt EI. Six wires come out of the alu box, which need to be connected. Black, Green, Blue male, Blue female, Yellow male, Yellow female. As Bryanj explained you can split the original Blue and Yellow wires close to the rear brake switch, not far to the right from the bottom of the battery. I looked it up and your model is no exception. If you can't find them, just follow the wire (combined and extra shielded) coming out from under the points cover and follow it, first a bit to the rear and then upwards. Somewhere there the blue and yellow connects to the blue and yellow in the harnass. You can disconnect these connectors. I've connected the female Blue and Yellow from my unit to the males of the original wires coming from under the ignition cover and I've connected the blue and yellow males from my unit to the original females in the harnass dangling down after I disconnected them. It's very simple: I just interupted the original wires and put my unit in between. The location I chose for my unit, is ideal, as it sits right where you can interrupt the original layout. Now my unit needs ground and power ofcourse, so these wires (Black and Green) are an extra compared to the original layout. Now the Ground is easy. The Batt NEG terminal is right there. Now there's just one wire left to connect and that is the black one of my unit to the POS. The Batt POS terminal nearby is a no no ofcourse, because you don't want the unit to be ON all of the time. We need switched power. Now you would think any black wire is OK, as black means switched power with fuse and all. However possible, for me this is not ideal, as I like to be able to do maintenance with the key switch ON, but the ignition switched OFF (by the killswitch). So the power my unit needs, is ideally under the same regime of that killswitch, just like the coils are. So I have connected the black, the needed POS for my unit to the POS wiring to the coils, coming from the killswitch.
After writing all this, have you considered leaving the ignition original? The system is more than adequate to ignite at all rpms. Not that long ago, just out of curiosity, I did a measurement of the peak voltage in the primary of the original breakerpoints ignition and was surprised to see it well over 200 Volts. That's a healthy ignition.
In other words, just don't expect too much of an EI. The standard Kettering ignition is simple and more than adequate.
Edit: the pic may lead to confusion. The Ground wire to the battery NEG terminal, is not Green, but Green/Yellow. I had that wire lying around and in housing in Holland Green/Yellow is always ground.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2023, 01:54:54 PM by Deltarider »
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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #92 on: July 17, 2023, 01:17:09 AM »
While I'm still waiting on parts, I was wondering if it would be a good idea to remove the oil pan and replace the oil pan gasket as well. At the moment I haven't installed the cilinder head yet (waiting on the head gasket for this to arrive).

I haven't taken the engine out the frame to replace the pistons and rings so thought it might be a good idea, since I'm changing top gaskets, to get this oil pan gasket done as well (and check the oil screen filter for sludge/metal parts).

Unless you experts here talk me out of it?

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BMW R1150RT 2004

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #93 on: August 10, 2023, 08:11:14 AM »
I need some help concerning clutch cable routing near the carbs. A picture frome someone would do miracles.

 I've tried to look at photo's in the assembly topic but as far as I see, I've got mine exactly the same way in there...

However my clutch cable keeps pushing of the airbox from the carbs, so I keep getting bad mixture. Bike runs rough and I'm thinking this is the issue.

See photos attached.



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Offline dave500

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #94 on: August 11, 2023, 12:55:48 AM »
you can bend the metal bracket to get the cable off the intakes,yours might be bent or damaged?bump it over at that folded loop part until it lines up better?,disconnect the cable first then readjust it afterwards,mines a 500 with 550 motor,you got them PD carbs though aswell.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2023, 02:00:56 AM by dave500 »

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #95 on: August 11, 2023, 02:11:49 AM »
you can bend the metal bracket to get the cable off the intakes,yours might be bent or damaged?bump it over at that folded loop part until it lines up better?,disconnect the cable first then readjust it afterwards,mines a 500 with 550 motor,you got them PD carbs though aswell.
You mean the loop where the clutch cable goes through right? That's thick steel though. I don't see a way to bend that to be honest.

Also it's off by quite some margin then? Here's a photo of a screwdriver (nice and straight for visuals)

But the bracket itself looks normal, not bent.

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Offline dave500

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #96 on: August 11, 2023, 02:28:02 AM »
place a brass or wooden drift against it,then with a good hammer just knock it in the direction you figure it needs?come on man get tough!i wouldnt use a socket extention but you get the idea?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2023, 02:38:35 AM by dave500 »

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #97 on: August 16, 2023, 03:40:41 AM »
So she's all up and running again, after 8 years of silence... She's roaring (I'll post a video later if there's any interest).

In the beginning she was running WAY to rich, my mistake, I was using the wrong float height settings. So I've now dropped it from 22mm (when I got the bike, they were even at 26mm) to 14,5 mm like the manual says for these carbs. The mixture screws are 1 turn open.

For now spark plugs are still blackish, but I need to do some miles now. Starting/Stopping will only give you the back carbon build up. Needs time to break down again.
She runs great, has power all the way through.

The only thing that I'd think isn't optimal yet is how it behaves on a cold start. It goes up to 3000RPM for 20 seconds and then drops to normal idle. After that she always just starts and idles great. Is this because I don't start with the choke on? Or is this normal behavior?
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BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline Deltarider

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #98 on: August 16, 2023, 07:18:31 AM »
[...] It goes up to 3000RPM for 20 seconds and then drops to normal idle. After that she always just starts and idles great. Is this because I don't start with the choke on? Or is this normal behavior?
It is typical behaviour for the K3.
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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #99 on: August 16, 2023, 10:08:13 AM »
[...] It goes up to 3000RPM for 20 seconds and then drops to normal idle. After that she always just starts and idles great. Is this because I don't start with the choke on? Or is this normal behavior?
It is typical behaviour for the K3.
Oh ok. Good to know!

Now I'm hoping the mileage will improve a bit. Now I'm getting 100km out of 9L. So after 135km, I need to switch to reserve.

I thought she ran a bit more efficient on fuel.

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Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004