Topic: Electrical help needed

[sixthwisconsin]

I have a 1974 cb550 with a 1978 motor that I completed a rebuild on 4 years ago and have put many trouble free miles on it.



Out of storage this year, I noticed some corrosion on a few fasteners that I cleaned and nickel plated. When I tried to start it, I had nothing when I turned the key. I thought the damp storage might have corroded up the grounds.

Here are a few things I have already tried and some other facts.

1. First thing I did was check the main grounds to the frame under the battery and the coil mount. I redid these after a thorough cleaning and reassembled with dielectric grease. I then checked all ground wires in the bucket and under the left side cover and had good continuity. I also used contact cleaner on all plugs under the left side cover.
2. I started swapping parts from a running cb550. Solenoid, Key switch and a brand new Rick's reg/rec.
3. Before these swaps, I measured voltage at various places to trace back where the failure was occurring.

Solenoid with key off:



Solenoid with key on:



from the regulator black wire:



I measured these with the bikes existing components as well as the ones from a running cb550 with largely the same results.

Interestingly, the solinoid key on results started at about 1.9v and rose to about 2.5v after 20 sec or so.

I also checked the fuse panel and fuses with all being good.

I have bypassed the safety switch on this bike by moving the green/red wire to ground.

I am at a bit of a loss as to where to go next and any suggestions are welcome.

[scottly]

If the voltage at the solenoid drops as soon as soon as the key is turned on, stop. Check the voltage at the battery terminals; if it still drops, the battery is dead and can't supply the load.

[sixthwisconsin]

Scottly, thanks for the reply.
At the battery terminals I get a solid and steady 12.67v.

[sixthwisconsin]

Scottly, thanks for the reply.
At the battery terminals I get a solid and steady 12.67v.

Scotty, Even though I was getting good steady voltage at the terminals, I hooked up the jumpers to another battery and sure enough, it came to life! Don't know if I have ever experienced that before.

[scottly]

Check the connections at the battery + terminal and the solenoid.

[sixthwisconsin]

Even though I was getting good voltage from the battery and I had already gone through all the battery connections, it still was not performing under load. That is one thing I had not checked. Its a 4 year old bike master AGM and I did not anticipate a failure there. It was also on a trickle charger three of four times over the winter.

I switched out the battery to a known used one I had until I can get a replacement. Sometimes it is the simplest things one overlooks!!
Back up and running.

Thanks for the "Duh" moment, its just what I needed!

[scottly]

I've seen AGM and gel cell batteries act that way, where they showed a good voltage but fell flat on their face with a load applied.

[MauiK3]

I’ve had that happen too.

[newday777]

I've seen AGM and gel cell batteries act that way, where they showed a good voltage but fell flat on their face with a load applied.

They are susceptible to internal shorts.

[Deltarider]

My bike seems to appreciate the conventional OEM Yuasa very much, either the 12N12A-4A-1 or the YB12A-A. Reliable, long living and forgiving towards voltages over 14,5 V, so no need to replace components by aftermarket products of unknown quality. These batteries are a direct fit with tailor made terminals, which means: no adapters needed and no risk of errors connecting them, which can be costly. What else? They're cheap.

[bryanj]

12.6v is not fully charged

[Deltarider]

Right after charging you may see 13,2 V, but 12,6 V after the battery has been left alone for a couple of hours, is not a reason for concern. Less than 12,6V indicates a battery nearing the end of its lifespan however.

[Gurp]

Def time to get a load tester. They have saved me on a few days when I'm pulling my hair out.

[Deltarider]

You don't need one. Just crank the engine electrically and monitor the voltage drop, preferably on a analogue voltmeter. If the needle goes < 10 V, it indicates battery is at its end. There's your loadtester.

[PeWe]

My blue K6 got an AGM battery this year.

I had read before purchase that this type must get higher voltage during charge. Seller confirmed that.

My CTEK charger has a snowflake marked setting for higher charge.
The latest version of my charger has replaced that with "AGM" which is same mode.

Search on AGM battery charging:

"AGM batteries are designed to require 14.6v – 14.8v when performing a full charge from a state of discharge, whereas standard lead acid batteries need 13.8v – 14.4v, hence this is what most onboard chargers are designed to deliver – not the 14.6v – 14.8v that AGM requires."

I only charge over night at AGM mode.
Bike has also improved rectifier to  enter 14.6V during riding quicker despite low rpm riding.

I'll see how long it will survive.
I have had low priced car batteries that both died after 4 years.
Last battery a slightly pricier Bosch that will live longer.

My K2 has a GEL battery with other needs.
"The peak charging voltage for Gel batteries is 14.1 or 14.4 volts, which is lower than a wet or AGM type battery needs for a full charge. Exceeding this voltage in a Gel battery can cause bubbles in the electrolyte gel, and permanent damage."

[Airborne 82nd]

You don't need one. Just crank the engine electrically and monitor the voltage drop, preferably on a analogue voltmeter. If the needle goes < 10 V, it indicates battery is at its end. There's your loadtester.

Good point you can also use the headlight. The scanner for my pickup truck uses the headlights for a certain time for the battery load test you still need to start the test with the battery charged overnight.

[HondaMan]

Even though I was getting good voltage from the battery and I had already gone through all the battery connections, it still was not performing under load. That is one thing I had not checked. Its a 4 year old bike master

...'nuff said. Don't use that brand battery, they are crap. Their very best ones are still made with recycled lead.

[scottly]

My bike seems to appreciate the conventional OEM Yuasa very much, either the 12N12A-4A-1 or the YB12A-A. Reliable, long living and forgiving towards voltages over 14,5 V, so no need to replace components by aftermarket products of unknown quality. These batteries are a direct fit with tailor made terminals, which means: no adapters needed and no risk of errors connecting them, which can be costly. What else? They're cheap.

My bike seems to appreciate the LiFePo batteries that I have been using for the last 11 years! I've yet to have one fail, and the only reason I replaced the first one was because it didn't have the capacity to spin the starter on my high compression 836, and I was beginning to lack the capacity to kick start it. I am using a solid state regulator to replace the archaic stock unit; would you trust a Bosch regulator?

[grcamna2]

Even though I was getting good voltage from the battery and I had already gone through all the battery connections, it still was not performing under load. That is one thing I had not checked. Its a 4 year old bike master

...'nuff said. Don't use that brand battery, they are crap. Their very best ones are still made with recycled lead.

Mark,which is a better brand battery that you would recommend:Motobat or Scorpion AGM ?

[HondaMan]

Even though I was getting good voltage from the battery and I had already gone through all the battery connections, it still was not performing under load. That is one thing I had not checked. Its a 4 year old bike master

...'nuff said. Don't use that brand battery, they are crap. Their very best ones are still made with recycled lead.

Mark,which is a better brand battery that you would recommend:Motobat or Scorpion AGM ?

My first choice is [hard to find] Yuasa AGM or Maintenance-Free versions. I've received up to 8 years of service from each of these. The Maintenance-Free one supplied slightly higher system voltage overall (12.6 as opposed to 12.4 volts), while the AGM never needed a 'Springtime reawakening' with the trickle charger, so either one was good.

I haven't tried others lately, but beware the "Made in China"mark. They have NEVER made good batteries, EVER. Still don't...

[Stev-o]

I've seen AGM and gel cell batteries act that way, where they showed a good voltage but fell flat on their face with a load applied.

That happened to my Z1 a couple months back.  Battery was fine one day and the next it wouldnt crank.  After a few checks it was determined to be a bad battery, was changed and all good.

[PeWe]

Good one day, another not is typical for batteries. Happened my bike and car despite no winter.

Car batteries usually show their weak status when -10C or colder, car parked outside.

I prefer when bike can be started with kick, ride without headlight in worst case if higher rev is not enough.
In this case a point ign is good

[RAFster122s]

Heat can kill batteries too...it is tough on batteries here in the desert SW...

[Maltboy]

My first choice is [hard to find] Yuasa AGM or Maintenance-Free versions. I've received up to 8 years of service from each of these. The Maintenance-Free one supplied slightly higher system voltage overall (12.6 as opposed to 12.4 volts), while the AGM never needed a 'Springtime reawakening' with the trickle charger, so either one was good.

I haven't tried others lately, but beware the "Made in China"mark. They have NEVER made good batteries, EVER. Still don't...

The DieHard batteries they sell at Advance Auto Parts are rebranded Yuasas.  They are made in the same factory.

[sixthwisconsin]

The DieHard batteries they sell at Advance Auto Parts are rebranded Yuasas.  They are made in the same factory.

Interesting about the DieHard batteries at Advanced. I'll need a car battery soon on my 2009 CR-V and will have to check them out. Currently running an 8 y/o Fleet Farm special.

Thanks to all for your replies!