Author Topic: Need help with my frame  (Read 1154 times)

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Offline Nstillwell

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Need help with my frame
« on: August 19, 2022, 09:08:41 PM »
I have been looking and lusting for a cb550 and I finally found one. I bought a 76 CB550F from the widow of the PO. So I wasn't able to get any history of the bike. The bike is in really good shape for sitting in a garage for 25+ years but I long story short, it looks like the bike was in an accident. I missed a decent dent in the frame on the bottom left near the timing cover and one on the front fender where the engine guard hit it. I know... I don't know how I missed it either. I was too excited to get this thing.... My wife and I ran a string from the back wheel to the front wheel and it looks like the front wheel is canted 1/2" to the left. How big of a deal is this? Does anyone know someone in MN that can check my frame for me? I want a CB550 more than any other bike in the world but I need it to be safe also. Should I just part this thing out on eBay and try to find something better? I have been looking all over for a reasonably priced frame and I am convinced that they don't exist. I have been scouring this forum for any insights but I just keep finding the same 3 threads. I would so appreciate any help!

Offline Kevnz

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2022, 10:15:13 PM »
Years ago, I rebuilt a 750, before discovering it had bent frame, similar to yours, front wheel not vertical when viewed from the front. I had to strip the frame and took it to a place that straightened it for me. IIRC it only cost a couple of hundred dollars. They strapped the frame to a table, stuck a mandrel in bearing stock and gently tweaked it until it was correct, all measured by laser. Hopefully there will be a similar place near you, or perhaps an engineering firm might be able to assist.
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Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2022, 05:25:04 AM »
A buddy of mine bought a cb750 side car rig. After much clean up and getting it running sweetly, he made the same discovery. We removed the front wheel and forks completely (including the bearings and races). He machined up a mandrel that fit well in the frame tube and took about a 1” bar through the centre. We tied everything down on his heavy equipment trailer and used a hydraulic “porta- power” unit to push it back where it belonged. It took a while to get it just right, but was surprisingly easy. You need to be very careful. What can easily happen in this home brew solution is that you bend the frame somewhere else, instead of just reversing the damage. Not an easy solution, but can be done......

Offline Alan F.

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2022, 05:43:24 AM »
There's a 77 frame on eBay in South Carolina for $125 but shipping is expensive ($289 in the listing). Do you have any contacts out there that could pick it up locally and work from there?


Edit: add it shipping cost from listing.

Offline Nstillwell

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2022, 11:19:56 AM »
Here is a picture of the frame damage. It looks so much worse in the picture  :-\
I have seen a few ebay listings for 550K frames. Mine is an F frame. I've heard that there are a lot of differences between the 2... Different seat and gas tank sizes. Different side covers and stand. So I assume I need an F frame to avoid paying more for additional parts....

Offline Shtonecb500

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2022, 11:26:00 AM »
idk if i would repair that....maybe cut a piece of steel the shape of the indent and weld it over?

edit: never mind you said its bent.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2022, 11:28:07 AM by Shtonecb500 »
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2022, 11:34:05 AM »
Years ago, I rebuilt a 750, before discovering it had bent frame, similar to yours, front wheel not vertical when viewed from the front. I had to strip the frame and took it to a place that straightened it for me. IIRC it only cost a couple of hundred dollars. They strapped the frame to a table, stuck a mandrel in bearing stock and gently tweaked it until it was correct, all measured by laser. Hopefully there will be a similar place near you, or perhaps an engineering firm might be able to assist.

I drove my motorcycle to a place called GMD Computrac which is in Boston,Ma. just to check my frame for straightness:it was good.  :)  GMDATL.com Very good people. Call Kent Soignier,he will know a recommended shop not far from you:he'll steer you straight.
The place also has a table where they straighten and repair frames.
They're main place? is in Atlanta,Ga. and other locations:very highly recommended.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2022, 12:53:36 PM by grcamna2 »
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Offline wolf550

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2022, 12:26:57 PM »
saw this one thats been on there awhile but usually if it is still up it is still there it says 700 but could be OBO

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/594976141926016?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A6eb70596-6360-4743-860d-fe812cbbe0b7

theres alot of good stuff that I see out there on fb market

definitely check each day as they come and so really fast

had a 550 SS come up from a storage with oem 4 in 1 for 300 bucks but an hour after it was listed it was sold.
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Offline bryanj

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2022, 12:50:33 PM »
I would put money on if you removed the engine the frame will spring so much the engine wont go back in. I have seen damage repaired but that is on the bad side, obviously hit something hard
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Offline Nstillwell

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2022, 05:13:23 PM »
I would put money on if you removed the engine the frame will spring so much the engine wont go back in. I have seen damage repaired but that is on the bad side, obviously hit something hard
I wish I knew how much that was true. I also suspect the same thing. I think I need a new frame. I just wish I knew that for sure.

Offline Nstillwell

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2022, 05:15:13 PM »
saw this one thats been on there awhile but usually if it is still up it is still there it says 700 but could be OBO

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/594976141926016?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A6eb70596-6360-4743-860d-fe812cbbe0b7

theres alot of good stuff that I see out there on fb market

definitely check each day as they come and so really fast

had a 550 SS come up from a storage with oem 4 in 1 for 300 bucks but an hour after it was listed it was sold.

Thanks for the info. That looks like an F! Yeah most things that pop up and look good disappear instantly! :-\
« Last Edit: August 20, 2022, 05:17:16 PM by Nstillwell »

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2022, 05:30:50 PM »
I would put money on if you removed the engine the frame will spring so much the engine wont go back in. I have seen damage repaired but that is on the bad side, obviously hit something hard
I wish I knew how much that was true. I also suspect the same thing. I think I need a new frame. I just wish I knew that for sure.

Good observation from member brianj..
I imagine you may be best to start with another F model frame,considering the damage $.
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Offline Don R

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2022, 07:29:09 PM »
 I'd loosen the engine mount bolts and see if the frame springs open or closed.  Are you sure the back wheel is aimed straight? That can skew the string check. I have cut a frame there and welded a piece from another bike in. I'd probably fit a piece from a bend and weld it over that area.
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Offline 69cb750

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2022, 04:31:44 AM »
Quote
I'd loosen the engine mount bolts and see if the frame springs open or closed. 
Loosen the the bolt and see if the frame moves in or out.
Good chance frame does not move.
A good welder can cut a half moon from a piece of pipe to repair frame.
You have to take the bike apart to repair, work.

Offline Scott S

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2022, 07:10:15 AM »
 I'd be concerned about all that blue RTV on the sump pan, too.
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Offline Nstillwell

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2022, 09:04:26 AM »
Quote
I'd loosen the engine mount bolts and see if the frame springs open or closed. 
Loosen the the bolt and see if the frame moves in or out.
Good chance frame does not move.
A good welder can cut a half moon from a piece of pipe to repair frame.
You have to take the bike apart to repair, work.

That's a fantastic idea! Thank you for the info! This is why I love this forum! I've been a very long time reader.

Offline Nstillwell

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2022, 09:07:17 AM »
I'd be concerned about all that blue RTV on the sump pan, too.

Yeah I need to take a look at that too. It seems like a fairly easy part to find on eBay if the pan is damaged. I figured I needed to assess the frame damage first... but definitely appreciate the observation!!  :)

Offline 69cb750

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2022, 09:14:57 AM »
Similar repair near kick stand.



Offline 69cb750

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2022, 09:16:16 AM »


Offline grcamna2

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2022, 10:06:42 AM »
Nstillwell,I hope you will try your best to determine whether the steering head is twisted;if that is,it will require more work than a beginner can do.
I watched a talented amateur measure my CB350(which was bent at the steering head)and he started by taking the bare frame and setting it up on some large wooden blocks on a level surface(his shop floor),then shimming along the bottom until the frame sat straight-up and level.He placed a couple different thin levels along the top of the rear portion(from the airbox/battery area,on back)of the frame to determine whether it was level:not leaning to one side or the other but sitting dead-level.
There are certain spots along the rear of these frames which are factory designed and meant to place a level across.
He then placed a Large/long threaded rod with large washers through the middle of the steering head,and at that point we were able to see the way the steering head was bent.
I left him to his work of straightening it at that point.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 10:09:02 AM by grcamna2 »
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Nstillwell

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2022, 10:33:27 AM »
Nstillwell,I hope you will try your best to determine whether the steering head is twisted;if that is,it will require more work than a beginner can do.
I watched a talented amateur measure my CB350(which was bent at the steering head)and he started by taking the bare frame and setting it up on some large wooden blocks on a level surface(his shop floor),then shimming along the bottom until the frame sat straight-up and level.He placed a couple different thin levels along the top of the rear portion(from the airbox/battery area,on back)of the frame to determine whether it was level:not leaning to one side or the other but sitting dead-level.
There are certain spots along the rear of these frames which are factory designed and meant to place a level across.
He then placed a Large/long threaded rod with large washers through the middle of the steering head,and at that point we were able to see the way the steering head was bent.
I left him to his work of straightening it at that point.

Wow! It is crazy what someone can do that knows what they are doing! This does sound like it is way outside of my abilities… I do want to pull the engine out and see what it looks like. Maybe if I can get a long pipe or a threaded rod of some sort, I can measure from the centerline axis of the steering tube to the swing arm pivot and get an idea of what I’m working with.

I wish they had the info that you are talking about available to the public. It would be nice to know where to set levels and how to place them to check a frame. But I’m sure the guys that do that have learned through a lot of trial and error. That knowledge would be awesome to have!

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2022, 11:50:39 AM »
Nstillwell,I hope you will try your best to determine whether the steering head is twisted;if that is,it will require more work than a beginner can do.
I watched a talented amateur measure my CB350(which was bent at the steering head)and he started by taking the bare frame and setting it up on some large wooden blocks on a level surface(his shop floor),then shimming along the bottom until the frame sat straight-up and level.He placed a couple different thin levels along the top of the rear portion(from the airbox/battery area,on back)of the frame to determine whether it was level:not leaning to one side or the other but sitting dead-level.
There are certain spots along the rear of these frames which are factory designed and meant to place a level across.
He then placed a Large/long threaded rod with large washers through the middle of the steering head,and at that point we were able to see the way the steering head was bent.
I left him to his work of straightening it at that point.

Wow! It is crazy what someone can do that knows what they are doing! This does sound like it is way outside of my abilities… I do want to pull the engine out and see what it looks like. Maybe if I can get a long pipe or a threaded rod of some sort, I can measure from the centerline axis of the steering tube to the swing arm pivot and get an idea of what I’m working with.

I wish they had the info that you are talking about available to the public. It would be nice to know where to set levels and how to place them to check a frame. But I’m sure the guys that do that have learned through a lot of trial and error. That knowledge would be awesome to have!

The good thing is you've decided to keep the bike and repair/replace the frame problem  ;)

Why not start by putting the bike on the centerstand on a known,level floor.,then completely remove the seat,rear fender and fuel tank,then take a top view picture of the frame section under the seat and I should be able to point out where the frame level spots are on the top frame rails.They will both be across from each other at the same place,where you can lay a thin level across the top of the frame from left to right(the same orientation as the axles)and then shim your centerstand with cedar shingles,etc. until the bike sits level.

I would at least remove the headlight completely so you can get a better view of the seam in the frame
or better yet remove the complete front-end with the engine still bolted in and place a stable,large wooden block under the front of it to hold-up the front wheel of the bike just enough to remove the front-end and install a long(4'+),thick threaded rod into your steering head and stand back and look at it:keep checking the levels and take many looks/views.

This is NOT  :D a precision way to determine if your frame is bent, but you may see it if it is twisted.. depending on your perspective..  :D  I hope someone else can mention a way to properly measure the frame,at this point...
I can't say it enough,keep the level on top of the rear frame rails during this entire process and keep checking to be sure your bike stays level for an accurate view of the steering head.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 11:52:40 AM by grcamna2 »
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline newday777

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2023, 03:48:02 AM »
You left this thread hanging unfinished. What did you end up doing about the frame being damaged? Update please so others know that read this later on.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
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Offline trigger

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Re: Need help with my frame
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2023, 06:51:41 AM »
I would put money on if you removed the engine the frame will spring so much the engine wont go back in. I have seen damage repaired but that is on the bad side, obviously hit something hard

I used to have the same problem when we did CX500 exchange engines. Drop the engine out and you would get a big twang, as it was only the engine holding the main frame straight  :o