Author Topic: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1  (Read 540 times)

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Offline Andey108

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BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« on: September 04, 2022, 10:40:19 AM »
Hi all! Need to consult the group!

I have a BOYER BRANSDEN ignition on a running cb500 k1… but strobing with the timing light and I can’t get it aligned properly so at 4500rpm it has max advance in the position of the timing plate (on the crankshaft)

At idle it’s already at maximum advance timing mark… with the stator plate all the way clockwise and it’s no where near TDC

Also I seem to be getting double image (1-4 mark, overlapping with 2-3)… normal?

Any ideas what to look for?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2022, 10:42:36 AM by Andey108 »

Offline Deltarider

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2022, 11:57:24 AM »
Probably you have the Boyer & Bransden model which, for a reason only B & B knows, fires all 4 plugs simultaneously. That's not one but three sparks wasted. Great achievement. ;) Although it's cheaper by design, B & B is about the most expensive around. What timing light are you using? Is it maybe the type with a dial? Realise that using a stroboscopic timing light, there's polarity to observe in a dual output coil system. If the inductive pick-up clamp in the THIS SIDE TOWARDS PLUG position doesn't work or poorly, flip the clamp and try again on that plugwire.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2022, 12:07:19 PM by Deltarider »
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Offline Andey108

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2022, 06:50:18 PM »
Thought it might be the timing light, but seems to work for 3 other bikes.

Not to say it might not have problems with the b&b igntion.

It’s not one with a dial, but follows advance marks fine…

I’m thinking maybe I will see double image if there’s wasted spark, because it will spark regardless

I always check the direction of the lead twice… I get paranoid about simple details that might mess up my readings. But I think there’s no harm in flipping the lead direction.

Still stumped on why the marks aren’t lining up properly.

Is there any tests to do to check the transistor box is working properly?

Offline dave500

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2022, 11:58:09 PM »
i run those boyers,it may have been set up incorrectly?mostly they fail dead if theyre gonna fail,the rotor may be in the wrong position?i can PM the instruction sheet if you dont have one or google their site itll have it,once installed and running use the strobe and increase the rpm watching the marks,hold the rpm at where its stops advancing and rotate the base plate so the marks are inside or just to the clockwise side of the two marks,forget about where it ends up at idle,that should be the F mark,the T mark is only for top dead centre not used with your strobe,the boyer units are fine ive run them for years!they fire all four at once to Deltas disgust.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2022, 11:59:41 PM by dave500 »

Offline flatlander

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2022, 11:59:23 PM »
i have a boyer bransden on my 550. the way i timed it is to align at full advance correctly with the full advance marks || and let idle fall wherever it goes. i don't see a "double image" on 1/4 and 2/3, though.
you could send a mail to boyer bransden. admittedly, it's been many years but when i contacted them, their tech support was helpful answering detailed questions.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2022, 03:17:24 AM by flatlander »

Offline dave500

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2022, 12:04:29 AM »
if your timing full advance to F flatlander thats way wrong,you have T then F for fire close together,followed by the two lines more clockwise which are the full advance marks.

Offline scottly

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2022, 12:28:46 AM »
Dave, does the Boyer use the stock advancer like the Dyna S and Gerex ignitions? Ideally, it will be at full advance at higher RPMs and then drop back to the F mark at idle, but I agree the full advance at RPM is more important than idle timing.
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Offline flatlander

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2022, 12:48:28 AM »
no it does not use the mechanical advancer. advance curve is electronically controlled.

Offline scottly

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2022, 12:49:39 AM »
Thank you, FL. ;)
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline flatlander

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2022, 03:16:37 AM »
if your timing full advance to F flatlander thats way wrong,you have T then F for fire close together,followed by the two lines more clockwise which are the full advance marks.

yes that's what i mean.
correcting it above... i'm sitting here with broken collar bone and full of drugs, ha ha.

Offline Scott S

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2022, 03:50:00 AM »
 Why full advance at 4500?
 It's usually all in by 2500-2600.
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2022, 06:22:26 AM »
Maybe it's good to realise that any EI is in essence nothing but a switch in the NEG path of the ignition coil's current. It's only because the transistor involved, cuts current way faster than a mechanical contactbreaker, that the induction produced is better, which in its turn results in a slightly more reserve for the energy of the spark. The rest is imagination and projecting ideal properties. No EI will produce even one HP more over a stock kettering ignition in good condition. Because there's no sparking between breakerpoints, there is a slightly better spark in the low rpm, resulting in a possibly nicer idle and a somewhat better performance in the high rpms.
Never understood what's so special about the Boyer & Bransden. Why you'd want four plugs to fire simultaneously, is an enigma for me. To me it seems that's energy wasted... Well, such an EI is cheaper to make ofcourse, that I know. All in all there's a lot you can sell with the invisible mysteries electricketry and magnetism. Boyer & Bransden... I guess you pay for the name, in this case you pay for both names. A lot of companies use this name & name trick, as to suggest one family could not have been enough to reach this quality. Seems folks are easily impressed by double names.
Here are a few:
Johnson & Johnson - talcum powder
Cross & Blackwell - spices
Benson & Hedges - homocide
Smith & Wesson - homocide
Bonnie & Clyde - banking
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Offline newday777

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2023, 02:10:04 AM »
Andey108
Did you get this running properly?
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline Andey108

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Re: BOYER BRANSDEN ignition issues on a cb500 k1
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2023, 05:53:08 AM »
Yeah, so not being able to get the timing light to line up with the “F” timing mark at idle was sorted when I swapped the ignition box out.

I called the folks at B&B and they said the version I had was really old. Like from the 80-90s.

But yeah wired up the new box and the ignition timing is great.