Author Topic: Will value of classics drop with electrification  (Read 5501 times)

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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2022, 08:53:29 AM »
how many cordless tools have been junked because the batteries have carked it?maybe no longer available?so a new tool is bought yet again,how annoying is a phone that wont hold charge but the battery is locked inside so get a new phone

Keep in mind, the current economic trend is challenging the idea of ownership.
As boardroom think tanks devise ways to develop continuous revenue streams - the idea of subcribe, lease, or basically rent is becoming adapted to various products.

So consider not owning an electric vehicle, but rather paying monthly to use one.  Wether its leased and parked in a personal driveway.  Or Subscription where the the vehicle is parked at a depot, and you use an app to book it on an as needed basis.  The latter of which is easier adopted in metropolitan areas.

In these models - the user is less likely to experience the product at end of life.  Hopefully, the think tank also comes up with a sustainability plan for the maintenance or recycling of those vehicles.  It would suck to book a car share EV and after unlocking it with a phone - discover someones mutt (or kid, or irresponsible partner/self) took a poop in the back seat and left it! 

I digress - if you don't believe people are changing out their vehicle every couple of years, just ask some harley riders why they're always riding such low mileage machines!  Even at 40-60k budgets - the consumer does upgrade quite often.

Offline jgger

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2022, 12:36:11 PM »
Yeah, that model of ownership/consumer worked so well with time shares, why not try it with everything else?
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2022, 06:47:12 PM »
eh....

Offline dave500

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2022, 03:04:56 AM »
that #$%* goes against human nature?this is mine!

Offline PeWe

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2022, 06:37:44 AM »
That's why we work really hard and way too often! Purchase my own property, car, bikes, holidays to nice places etc.

No idea to do anything unless  forced to.
People will move to other places, so that will be stopped. DDR, Sovjet style. Not much tech stuff or inventions grows then.

Alu foiled cap and camper van.  No modern phone.
A bigger van needed for bike in the luggage.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2022, 07:57:49 AM »
eh...I post stuff like that as a form of humor.....
but, it illustrates what is going on behind the curtain. It's not some dark room conspiracy anymore....
This is part of the ideology.....out in the open.

sad..

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2022, 09:15:33 AM »
When i first left rhe farm for the big city after high school - I didn't have a car.  Living downtown there was a lack of parking and bicycling was a quick way go get across the neighborhood.
But
Getting groceries was the biggest hassle.  So i thought to myself "jeez, if i could just borrow a car for a couple hours to do this"

Guess i'm not totally opposed to the idea of car-share.

Offline PeWe

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2022, 09:24:49 AM »
Order via phone or other controlled unit and get it delivered to home if having any.
A cell in a grey very boring jail type of hose with gates outside to keep the orchs outside. Man eating ones when meat is banned in shops. Only vegetables and insects on the shelves.

I see Snake Plisken sneaking around on wrong side of Manhattan.
The happier life is more like Mad Max in Australia.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2022, 10:28:34 AM »
A cell in a grey very boring jail type of hose with gates outside to keep the orchs outside. Man eating ones when meat is banned in shops. Only vegetables and insects on the shelves.....





funny you mentioned this....

coming to a city near you....



Offline Stev-o

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2022, 07:15:38 AM »
When i first left rhe farm for the big city after high school - I didn't have a car.  Living downtown there was
Getting groceries was the biggest hassle.  So i thought to myself "jeez, if i could just borrow a car for a couple hours to do this"


Have you heard of Turo?  Short term car rental from individuals...

https://turo.com/us/en/car-rental/united-states/porsche

I considered doing it on a recent trip, but nothing of interest was available for where I was.
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Offline Dunk

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2022, 04:11:58 PM »
Values of simple, reliable, easy to maintain and overall cost effective classics will increase as governments push for electric vehicles. Even more so as they simultaneously reject clean nuclear power given all the fearmongering and appeasing the NIMBY types. Even if batteries were practical so far as capacity to weight ratios and economically viable, power generation will continue to be an issue with high adoption rates. These largely coal fired electric vehicles are dirty and polluting over their whole lifetime. Beyond the pollution of creating the disposable vehicle and batteries that have a short life and are largely not recyclable at all or in any economically viable way, there is the child labor and general poor working conditions (and subsequent low life expectancy) in the cobalt and lithium mines to make the batteries.

Of course the cost of such electric vehicles is insane. Most people can't afford (whether they know it or not) $40k-$60k for an electric vehicle that only has a 5-7 year lifespan at best before destined for the landfill. As new models come out, companies won't make batteries. Maybe eventually there will be a modular and standardized packaging for batteries so they are interchangeable, but that's not here currently and companies tend to try for proprietary (i.e. most power tool battery is just some number of 18650 cells, packaged to only fit a particular brand).

Eric Peters writes regularly about the many cold hard truths about electric vehicles, and particularly the politicians push to force them on the masses (while subsidizing the rich individuals and companies that make them, such as the US President who is chauffeured around in a massively heavy 5 MPG vehicle and always followed by many other horribly inefficient vehicles). He also writes about classic cars and bikes, among other automotive related things. https://www.ericpetersautos.com/category/politics/

Electric bikes will never replace motorcycles in our lifetime. Battery capacity isn't there and will not be, nor is the ability to quickly recharge. One guy at work who lives a few miles away got one of those electric pedalcycles. It works for him, goes 30 MPH flat out, and can be pedaled when the battery runs out or to extend battery runtime. There are practical applications for such things, hybrid bicycles and hybrid cars can make economic sense now. Electric everything (coal fired everything) as government tries to force, not so much. Good ideas don't require coercion, or subsidization as it is now with the poor subsidizing rich people toy electric cars. The tech and infrastructure isn't there yet for such things to be economically viable or have a lower environmental impact.

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2022, 12:37:36 AM »
Dunk (and the other naysays) may want to look up Redwood Materials.

Teslas CTO lit off on his own to construct a recycling center for the EV batteries.
A majority of the minerals within the power cells can be reclaimed and shipped back to Panasonic.
Panasonic then builds more new batteries for a lot of things.  A big continuous supply loop that doesn't have much in the way of losses.

If consumers get informed and start recycling technology responsibly.  A lot of the ecological impact could be mitigated.

Offline calj737

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2022, 04:35:58 AM »
Bomber- you should expect the outcome of recycling batteries to be consistent with the myth of plastic recycling. Tell us what they want, proof is ours to discover.

Hybrids are about the only truly reasonable option globally. Regenerative technology makes lots of sense, doesn’t burden failing grids, reduces fuel production/consumption, and maintains an economic status quo. Everything else is a profit scam covered in falsehoods and incomplete plans.

I’m not a naysayer, I’m a realist. Huge difference.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline PeWe

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2022, 06:27:01 AM »
If the rulers should recommend hybrid cars, I should plan a purchase.

100% battery, no thanks.
That demands working electrical infrastructure which seems to shrink. More power is needed but less produced. Windmills are not a reliable power source.

If I should invest in solar panels to charge a car only, not connected to the grid, maybe. But that is not possible here wintertime. Need to move south.

I have my old car and my bikes. Enjoy bikes as much I can. Car for transports only.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2022, 10:42:03 AM »
I dunno calj, when the chief technical officer of tesla takes the video crew on a tour of the recycling facility - its fairly compelling evidence.

In other news, Zero Motorcycles has launched the advertising campaign for their new adventure sport model.
Their specs look pretty good.  17kwh battery that can go 180 miles between charging - and fully recharge in one hour on a station plug.
I've been on group rides that spend an hour in each pub stop. 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 10:49:46 AM by BomberMann650 »

Offline jgger

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2022, 12:57:00 PM »
Is the same Tesla that touts their autonomous drive that runs down motorcycles? Drawing board might look good, real world who knows?
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline WideAWAKE

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2022, 07:01:47 PM »
I’m in California - they just banned the sale of gas cars in 2035.

We had a hot week.

They followed the ban announcement by asking those with electric cars not to charge them as well as having rolling blackouts.

I’ll hang onto all my dumb old vehicles for a while.




Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2022, 07:31:57 PM »
Tesla '35 edition planned for Cali
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline calj737

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2022, 08:23:51 PM »
I’m in California - they just banned the sale of gas cars in 2035.

We had a hot week.

They followed the ban announcement by asking those with electric cars not to charge them as well as having rolling blackouts.

I’ll hang onto all my dumb old vehicles for a while.
Yep, never underestimate the ability of some politicians to fcuk sh!t up beyond all recognition.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline PeWe

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2022, 12:40:52 AM »
I am OK with an electrical ride!

Maybe I'll modify with a CB750 engine + fuel to turn on when batteries are drained 8)
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2022, 01:22:04 AM »
Also not a fan of politics destroying industries.


My previous statement on 1600w home chargers gets a * (footnote) in light of zero's adv release.
Their integrated charger is 6600 watts.  With an 11 hour run-time.
It would be the same as a space heater, provided the heater was the size of a Volkswagen beetle.

Even though it can do 166 miles on the trail.  Not being able to charge with portable solar is a drawback
In the demand for horsepower, their 900amp motor needed a battery that remains ill suited for boon dockin

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2022, 06:45:03 AM »
I’m in California - they just banned the sale of gas cars in 2035.
They followed the ban announcement by asking those with electric cars not to charge them as well as having rolling blackouts.

This made the National news, I found it hilarious!    "And isn't it ironic... don't you think?!"
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Online scottly

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2022, 08:51:51 AM »
First of all, the mandate bans the sale of NEW gasoline cars in 2035; They are not banning our vintage vehicles. ;)
 Due to the recent heat wave across the West, (my brother lives in Washington state near Seattle, and it's been over 100*), the Governor asked people to limit their electric consumption during peak hours, including air conditioning and major appliances. There was no mention of electric car charging.
https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/08/31/as-heat-wave-grips-western-u-s-governor-newsom-takes-action-to-increase-energy-supplies-and-reduce-demand/   
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 08:53:28 AM by scottly »
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Offline jgger

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2022, 11:32:36 AM »
Unfortunately you can't put alot of in stuff Newsom's office puts out. What they print and what he does are two different things. This is an observation from a California resident, it's just how it is.
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline calj737

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Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2022, 01:14:25 PM »
There was no mention of electric car charging.
The “mention” was verbal during a public speaking engagement. He cited all the major appliances etc (like when everyone wants to cook meals in the evening, do laundry, you know, basic civic needs, AND to limit the charging of your EV during these peak hours.

So let’s extrapolate the issue: weather is hot during the summer, so in the future when millions of new EVs are running up and down the CA highways, shall they limit how far you can travel to enforce limited charging? And during winter when these “renewable” energy sources are less effective, what then?

It’s all a platform to mandate more and more limits on peoples choices, freedoms, and liberties.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis