Author Topic: Will value of classics drop with electrification  (Read 5438 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,340
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2022, 09:03:42 PM »

This is the same old misunderstanding of how these oil companies function. The wells that exist are decades old and produce plentiful oil for the current profit model. New profits can't be invested when they have no leases, no permits to guarantee drilling if they find oil, and no assurance to build new wells. Want them to invest those profits, then give them the permits to drill baby!
Cal, once again you are misinformed. The oil companies are sitting on over 9000 leases, with permits to drill on many of those. When gas prices are low, it's not worth pumping oil out of existing wells, much less drilling new ones.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,340
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2022, 09:23:50 PM »
Why do people feel so threatened by electric vehicles??? They are here now, and are faster and more capable than what the "hot rodders" were putting together 30 years ago, thanks to improved electronic controls and better batteries. I used to make electric motor adapters for the enthusiast market to convert existing cars, mostly VW and Porsche 914. Even with the limited range from the Optima Yellow top batteries, these DIY conversions made for great city commuter cars.
Drag racers used to pump 300+ volts worth of motorcycle sized AGM batteries into a motor nominally rated for 120V, and beat Dodge Vipers in the quarter mile. ;D
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline jgger

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,364
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2022, 10:00:42 PM »
Scottly I can't speak for others, but for me it's the "we are going to shove it down your throat" attitude of our government that burns me. Here in California it's not just our throats, for them any orifice will do. Billions of dollars later and we are still lined up for that maiden voyage of the "Bullet Train"!
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,340
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2022, 10:24:07 PM »
Jim, when I lived in Sunnyvale from 1980-1982, we paid an extra .005% sales tax to fund the B.A.R.T (Bay Area Rapid Transit) train, even though the closest train station was 40 miles away, on the East side of the Bay. San Francisco was only 40 miles away from home, so it wasn't really an option. ::) How long has this "Bullet Train" project been going on, and has there been any actual construction?
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline jgger

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,364
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2022, 11:14:10 PM »
I think it started during the time of the governor before Arnold, his name escapes me as I type. He was recalled  ,oh yea Gray Davis, a crook to the bone. It might have been Moonbeam (Brown). It has to have been at least 15 years or more. It's a complete boondoggle and money dump. My sister was working for an engineering firm that was doing some work for it. She was looking over some drawings for a tunnel under a freeway and next to a flood control chanel that rhe train could not squeeze through and they said " just make the tunnel smaller"! We tax payers continue to pay for this kind of crap and the powers thar be just don't give a crap.

I'm sure if you were to Google California Bullitt train it will diminish anyone's faith in government!
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline jgger

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,364
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2022, 11:27:55 PM »
I forgot the 2nd part of your question. I don't believe any actual physical work has been done so far. There has been land purchased as well as eminent domain grabs though. Problem is every one horse town between L A and San Francisco wants the train to stop in their town as a trade off for right of way. This drops the speed of the train and increases the ride time by gobs. I was looking at some info one time and the definition of high speed rail travel is 35 m.p.h. Can you imagine going from Los Angeles to San Francisco at 35 miles per hour?

This train, if it ever materializes, might be worth every dollar that has been wasted on it so far.
And still not an inch of track has been placed yet.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2022, 11:30:18 PM by jgger »
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,699
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #81 on: October 20, 2022, 01:16:04 AM »
For anyone that is considering buying an EV, hope you dont live by salt water.

Apparently, many cars that were victims of Hurricane Ian's storm surge have ignited on fire!

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electric-vehicle-fires-burned-down-224822440.html
Really interesting info Stev-o!

Salt on roads are a common issue around where I live from November to beginning of April.

I wonder how the salty slurry that will splash and impregnate the car will affect the battery in the long run.

A hybrid vehicle has a smaller battery placed more protected, higher located, not making the floor and base of the car?

Electrical motorcycles must be safer. But boring without sound.
My loud bike has saved my life many times during the years.
Need loud horns sounding as a tough engine like a dragster to be controlled by the throttle.
Record the old Russ Collins dragbikes when started. ;D

Or record your own now for future use ;)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2022, 01:40:35 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,035
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #82 on: October 20, 2022, 01:21:55 AM »
itll all be slot cars in time?with some other #$%* letting you go where HE wants?

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,094
  • I refuse...
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #83 on: October 20, 2022, 04:51:21 AM »

This is the same old misunderstanding of how these oil companies function. The wells that exist are decades old and produce plentiful oil for the current profit model. New profits can't be invested when they have no leases, no permits to guarantee drilling if they find oil, and no assurance to build new wells. Want them to invest those profits, then give them the permits to drill baby!
Cal, once again you are misinformed. The oil companies are sitting on over 9000 leases, with permits to drill on many of those. When gas prices are low, it's not worth pumping oil out of existing wells, much less drilling new ones.
Wrong. Gas prices  are sky high and if your position were accurate, the oil companies would be running 24/7/365 at todays prices. I am not misinformed, you are citing inaccurate narratives from liberal sources.

We will simply agree to disagree.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,094
  • I refuse...
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #84 on: October 20, 2022, 04:56:45 AM »
Why do people feel so threatened by electric vehicles??? They are here now, and are faster and more capable than what the "hot rodders" were putting together 30 years ago, thanks to improved electronic controls and better batteries. I used to make electric motor adapters for the enthusiast market to convert existing cars, mostly VW and Porsche 914. Even with the limited range from the Optima Yellow top batteries, these DIY conversions made for great city commuter cars.
Drag racers used to pump 300+ volts worth of motorcycle sized AGM batteries into a motor nominally rated for 120V, and beat Dodge Vipers in the quarter mile. ;D
Myopic understanding of economics and liberties.

Nobody is “afraid” of an EV. But the destruction of billions of dollars of economic streams, tens of thousands of jobs, and billions of dollars of private property (that has been earned, taxed, and generates incomes for those hundreds of thousands if not millions of employees and families) that will be eliminated without compensation or consideration. Can you really not look beyond the romantic notion of an EV as a piece of tech and see a larger picture?

I like EVs. But they are not a one size fits all solution and they have boundless limits but are being treated as an end-all, be-all remedy to some political problem.  ::)
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Don R

  • My Sandcast is a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,120
  • Saver of unloved motorcycles.
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #85 on: October 20, 2022, 09:08:09 AM »
 I saw the EV cars on fire on the news and agree it's a serious issue. If I owned one that got wet I'd park it outside. People with on street parking will find them tough to adapt to also.
  Years ago, I wanted to build a hybrid pickup with batteries and a big Honda generator in the back. Back then I didn't have the money, now I lack the desire.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,470
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,035
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #87 on: November 05, 2022, 01:43:43 AM »
as soon as petrol itself is banned any classic will become a huge paper weight?

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,470
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #88 on: November 05, 2022, 02:33:16 AM »
I don't think petrol will be banned. It will be harder to get as other propulsion methods take over. You might see biofuel conversion in some cases and it will force bikes to more parlor queens forost as owning a petrol powered vehicle will be to die hard enthusiast and the rich.
The ramifications of gasoline and diesel going away  are far reaching and I doubt it will happen in less than 50 years unless something earth shatteringly cheap is developed to replace it...
But, I won't be alive to see it play out and the end of gasoline powered vehicles...
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,035
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #89 on: November 05, 2022, 02:37:20 AM »
ethanol was a stupid attempt?

Offline jlh3rd

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,568
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #90 on: November 05, 2022, 06:35:46 AM »
Interesting article
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/blogs/ask-kevin/vehicle-electrification-and-structural-problems/
[/quote




yep...

So oil companies weren't gouging us under the previous political environment, but now they are? They weren't evil before, but now they're despicable......shots are now vaccines, inflation is not inflation.....our economy is robust...."we have the lowest inflation of any other country " (no we don't) ...we have 54 states...half of the populace is a threat to democracy........
nonsensical insanity.....
consider what's required in land resources (pictured) to supply current energy requirements in the U.S. and the ramifications of building such vast complexes...

We don't need massive mathematical calculations and pages of articles of point/counterpoint arguments to support a belief. It's easy enough to do it yourself. Take a cubic foot of gasoline and do the simple math for your own vehicles. There isn't a battery around that can match the energy equivalence, compact size, weight
mileage or fill time....if there is, show me..

thanks Cameron. I remember reading your article decades ago on the 550 you owned and how much you liked it.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 06:40:03 AM by jlh3rd »

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,699
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #91 on: November 05, 2022, 09:17:28 AM »
as soon as petrol itself is banned any classic will become a huge paper weight?
Rebuild/mod threads here to feed our engines with home made fuels ;)
Like moonshiners ;D
Our bikes will just continue despite electrical power shutdowns ;D ;D

Time to watch Mad Max movies again to be prepared for the future.
Tina Turner looked hot in the sequal. Net top ;)
I have one maxi single of the music.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Online ofreen

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,059
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #92 on: November 05, 2022, 09:49:32 AM »
Tina Turner looked hot in the sequal. Net top ;)

When I think of Tina Turner, I think of the end of this scene -
Greg
'75 CB750F

"I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question." - Dr. Wei-Hock Soon

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,340
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #93 on: November 06, 2022, 08:56:13 PM »
Mad Max beyond Thunderdome was undoubtedly the best of the trilogy, IMHO. The plot, with it's twists and turns about a power struggle for energy, mixed with a good dose of humor, along with much better cinematography than the first two episodes made for a fun viewing experience, not to mention Tina. ;) I enjoyed it again tonight! Thanks Per and Greg. ;D
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 08:59:59 PM by scottly »
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,970
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #94 on: November 23, 2022, 07:18:35 PM »
Here's something else to think about while concocting theories of what might or might not be:

If you stand in the USA, anywhere between the middle of Kansas and the middle of Nevada, anywhere north or south of there from the Arctic Circle to south of Venuzuela, you are standing above the world's largest oil and natural gas formation, more than 15x all the rest of the world's known reserves ADDED TOGETHER (circa 2010). And, just to add to this: anywhere a geodesic dome is relieved of its natural gas deposit, then left alone, it will refill in less than a decade (8 years on average) to more than 90% of its original volume of gas as it percolates upward form the molten core of this planet - a process that will continue for the life of this place, powered by gravity itself. Wherever an impermeable dome of rock/shale/clay traps the rising natural gas molecule, a gas pocket forms: if there is biomass there, it becomes oil. Both contain water with it, usually close to 80%+ by volume. Guess where that water also came from?

If you wonder where this info came from: I was part of the team that, between 1984 and 1988, developed the means to measure this formation and identify it as part of a joint-oil company's research project (headed by AMOCO then, included Tenneco, Shell and others) into the US oil reserves. Note that this formation does NOT include the extensive shale natural gas formations found in almost every US State: those take about 40 years to refill themselves, if drained, because of less porosity. I designed the first-ever mobile "computer van" for this research (and hand-built all the electronics save the HP desktop computer we used) and fielded it in 1985, revolutionizing forever how oil and gas exploration became since. It also provided the researchers (scientists) the geologic "signatures" they needed to find this massive formation, and later (2002-ish timeframe) to also discover that this situation is unique in all this world. The reserves in the Middle East are a large, singular pocket, which Russia shares, and which does not regenerate: it was the unique construction of the North American continent in this planet's crust that has created this situation. The Middle East has also fractured their largest geodesic domes in their careless haste to produce, which means those will not have any chance of refilling in any case.

So...knowing that even if the rest of the world "ran out" of hydrocarbon fuels so that America (including North-South portions) became the major supplier: how do you suppose that may shape the future of energy, and transportation? You can't fill a boat with electricity and ship it to someone else's ports. ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,035
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #95 on: November 23, 2022, 10:53:07 PM »
i cant imagine an electric boeing passenger liner?lets face it fossil fuels wont last forever but at the moment are the most efficient and cheap or should be if the fantasy off free power from the wind and sun idiots would piss off.

Offline jlh3rd

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,568
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #96 on: November 24, 2022, 07:03:12 AM »
and "they" are forcing this electric technology down our throats based on a false premise....THAT is my issue and as far as I'm concerned it should be everyone else's also. If  entrepreneurs pursue and develop the technology AND a person wants to spend their money on it.....great...
....and I'm done trying to reason with others on the other side.....They are either arrogantly defiant, uninformed, ignorant.......or just plain stupid.
It's not just this they're trying to force on us ...and our children.....
We just had the new "Coral Sea" battle Nov.8....

don't like what I say?
too bad.....Dietrich Bonhoeffer- "silence in the face of evil is evil itself"
I won't shut up...

Offline jlh3rd

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,568
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #97 on: November 24, 2022, 07:59:31 AM »
Here's something else to think about while concocting theories of what might or might not be:

If you stand in the USA, anywhere between the middle of Kansas and the middle of Nevada, anywhere north or south of there from the Arctic Circle to south of Venuzuela, you are standing above the world's largest oil and natural gas formation, more than 15x all the rest of the world's known reserves ADDED TOGETHER (circa 2010). And, just to add to this: anywhere a geodesic dome is relieved of its natural gas deposit, then left alone, it will refill in less than a decade (8 years on average) to more than 90% of its original volume of gas as it percolates upward form the molten core of this planet - a process that will continue for the life of this place, powered by gravity itself. Wherever an impermeable dome of rock/shale/clay traps the rising natural gas molecule, a gas pocket forms: if there is biomass there, it becomes oil. Both contain water with it, usually close to 80%+ by volume. Guess where that water also came from?

If you wonder where this info came from: I was part of the team that, between 1984 and 1988, developed the means to measure this formation and identify it as part of a joint-oil company's research project (headed by AMOCO then, included Tenneco, Shell and others) into the US oil reserves. Note that this formation does NOT include the extensive shale natural gas formations found in almost every US State: those take about 40 years to refill themselves, if drained, because of less porosity. I designed the first-ever mobile "computer van" for this research (and hand-built all the electronics save the HP desktop computer we used) and fielded it in 1985, revolutionizing forever how oil and gas exploration became since. It also provided the researchers (scientists) the geologic "signatures" they needed to find this massive formation, and later (2002-ish timeframe) to also discover that this situation is unique in all this world. The reserves in the Middle East are a large, singular pocket, which Russia shares, and which does not regenerate: it was the unique construction of the North American continent in this planet's crust that has created this situation. The Middle East has also fractured their largest geodesic domes in their careless haste to produce, which means those will not have any chance of refilling in any case.

So...knowing that even if the rest of the world "ran out" of hydrocarbon fuels so that America (including North-South portions) became the major supplier: how do you suppose that may shape the future of energy, and transportation? You can't fill a boat with electricity and ship it to someone else's ports. ;)



"They"know all that. They don't care. It's "their"agenda..the "green new deal"...wokism....esg.....control...
telling me I gotta buy an electric car while they buy beachfront homes that are supposed to be underwater in ...what...now it's 8 years?...
spare me....

Online ofreen

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,059
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #98 on: November 24, 2022, 08:14:55 AM »
"They"know all that. They don't care. It's "their"agenda..the "green new deal"...wokism....esg.....control...
telling me I gotta buy an electric car while they buy beachfront homes that are supposed to be underwater in ...what...now it's 8 years?...
spare me....

Fortunately, we don't have to worry about them with their apparently unwise real estate acquisitions.  Since they are wealthy and have multiple homes (which magically don't increase their "carbon footprint"), I'm sure they will vacate their flooding homes just in time and will have somewhere to go.  That realization enables me to sleep at night. ;)
Greg
'75 CB750F

"I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question." - Dr. Wei-Hock Soon

Offline jgger

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,364
Re: Will value of classics drop with electrification
« Reply #99 on: November 24, 2022, 08:21:05 AM »
Actually I think "they" will be the ones who are eaten first. IMHO
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s