Topic: Brake hoses

[Asphalt70]

My 550f2 '77 has been sitting since '95.
Took brake components of it yesterday. Hoses sayes '76 but looks fint though.
Probably wise to replace.
Master and the two calibers are stocked/fixed/locked.
I will put it soaking in a bath for a while.
Curious if will be possible to take it apart.
Any tips are very welcome.

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[Deltarider]

Request. Can any of you weigh a caliper and a disk and inform us the total in pounds/kilo's?

[WideAWAKE]

One of the checks I make is to grab the brake hose and work the lever with the other.  If I feel any expansion of the hose under pressure it gets replaced

I just wonder if you wouldn't feel expansion (a little) with new OEM lines...

In my experience, yes even with new oem lines you feel some bulge in the line.

Stainless really makes a difference.

Another thing that helps is to eliminate 2 piece lines (if you got em on a single disc set up, no elimination on a dual disc). Stainless straight to the caliper (or metal line ).

You can use a double banjo bolt at the master cylinder and run a one piece line to each caliper for dual discs.

I feel the line get harder/straighten but no bulge the ones that I found bad were a definite expansion when the lever was pulled. its hard to explain but I know what feels bad and its a different feel

I’m not saying that a new OEM line is bad (even with the expansion/stiffening). I have them on all my stock bikes. They work fine with a stock set up - it’s just a stainless line would work better.

[Kelly E]

Why the hell would you want to trust your life to an old brake hose? Safety comes before originality every time in my book.

[Deltarider]

Why the hell would you want to trust your life to an old brake hose? Safety comes before originality every time in my book.

Why the hell would you undertake unnecessary 'repairs'? There's a lot you can do wrong in fixing things that weren't broken. This forum is full of it. I have no indication something is wrong with the lines on mine. Except for holiday rides, they haven't seen much UV-light. At the start of every season I have a look at it. Also the brake fluid can give indications. The fluid on mine is in there over 10 years - I don't ride that much - and the brake fluid we drained from a Yamaha XS650 the other day that had sat for 12 years, came out like new. Nothing wrong with using your common sense.

[Asphalt70]

Why the hell would you want to trust your life to an old brake hose? Safety comes before originality every time in my book.

Why the hell would you undertake unnecessary 'repairs'? There's a lot you can do wrong in fixing things that weren't broken. This forum is full of it. I have no indication something is wrong with the lines on mine. Except for holiday rides, they haven't seen much UV-light. At the start of every season I have a look at it. Also the brake fluid can give indications. The fluid on mine is in there over 10 years - I don't ride that much - and the brake fluid we drained from a Yamaha XS650 the other day that had sat for 12 years, came out like new. Nothing wrong with using your common sense.

Totally agree - in generel.
Brakes are special, I think.
I have seen a guy on Assen track with no brakes in top speed after the straight, not a happy experience for him.
My hoses from '76 looks great but if you ask a professional from "rubber industri", what would he tell you?
I know, because I already asked.
Rubber starts loosing its properties from day one.

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[Asphalt70]

....my Italien v-twin has got aftermarket steel hoses even for the clutch

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[Bankerdanny]

My 550f2 '77 has been sitting since '95.
Took brake components of it yesterday. Hoses sayes '76 but looks fint though.
Probably wise to replace.
Master and the two calibers are stocked/fixed/locked.
I will put it soaking in a bath for a while.
Curious if will be possible to take it apart.
Any tips are very welcome.

Sendt fra min ONEPLUS A3003 med Tapatalk

Over at Motorcycle Classics they rebuilt a CB500 master, which is the same as your 550 master, a few years. The article goes through it step-by-step with pictures. I recommend it.

[PeWe]

It has been a discussion earlier about the stock type rubber hoses vs newer steel braided.

Some prefer the more flexible brake feeling than the harder with steel braided.

Really old rubber hoses can lock up brake. A friend got that on a car he had.
I'm sure that bad hose will be seen on a bike where they sit very open easy to inspect.

[scottly]

My 550f2 '77 has been sitting since '95.
Took brake components of it yesterday. Hoses sayes '76 but looks fint though.
Probably wise to replace.
Master and the two calibers are stocked/fixed/locked.
I will put it soaking in a bath for a while.
Curious if will be possible to take it apart.
Any tips are very welcome.

Sendt fra min ONEPLUS A3003 med Tapatalk

A grease gun can be used to force the pistons out of seized master cylinders as well as calipers.
 

[BenelliSEI]

I learned something new.  Modern motorcycle manuals list the life span of brake hoses as 4 or 5 years.  Do you replace your brake hoses every few years? 

I have to admit I never even thought of that - and on all my old vehicles I experienced one leaking brake line - 2004 Grand Cherokee - and it was a steel line that rusted though near the exhaust. 

Opinion?

I had a mystery brake issue on my K1 a few years ago. Brakes would drag forever, despite all the usual rebuilds. When I finally inspected the two hoses, I found the problem. They were so deteriorated (on the inside) they were acting as a check valves to the system. Brake master cylinder pressure was enough to force brake fluid down the hoses. But, there was so much soft, spongy, swollen rubber inside the hoses (I sliced them open to look), the fluid could not “return” and release brake pressure.

From then on, I change both hoses on any bikes more than 50 years old! I often use Teflon hoses (they are covered with stainless braid for protection), from APEX. Raymond also offers the hoses with a plastic over sleeve in any colour and fittings in various shades. I like plain stainless fittings, with the black hose cover. The O.D. of the hose is slightly less than standard originals, but they look tidy and will out last most of us! Last time I ordered a set for my 2008 Kawasaki KLR650, they were much less than OEM.

[Stev-o]

Why the hell would you want to trust your life to an old brake hose?

Kelly - I agree that safety is very important when it comes to brakes, but if a front line fails, it's not like you will have no brakes and you will lose your life!   The rear brake is mechanical....

[Kelly E]

I learned something new.  Modern motorcycle manuals list the life span of brake hoses as 4 or 5 years.  Do you replace your brake hoses every few years? 

I have to admit I never even thought of that - and on all my old vehicles I experienced one leaking brake line - 2004 Grand Cherokee - and it was a steel line that rusted though near the exhaust. 

Opinion?

I had a mystery brake issue on my K1 a few years ago. Brakes would drag forever, despite all the usual rebuilds. When I finally inspected the two hoses, I found the problem. They were so deteriorated (on the inside) they were acting as a check valves to the system. Brake master cylinder pressure was enough to force brake fluid down the hoses. But, there was so much soft, spongy, swollen rubber inside the hoses (I sliced them open to look), the fluid could not “return” and release brake pressure.

From then on, I change both hoses on any bikes more than 50 years old! I often use Teflon hoses (they are covered with stainless braid for protection), from APEX. Raymond also offers the hoses with a plastic over sleeve in any colour and fittings in various shades. I like plain stainless fittings, with the black hose cover. The O.D. of the hose is slightly less than standard originals, but they look tidy and will out last most of us! Last time I ordered a set for my 2008 Kawasaki KLR650, they were much less than OEM.

We have Apex lines on all of our bikes. Raymond has great service.

[BenelliSEI]

“We have Apex lines on all of our bikes. Raymond has great service”

I agree! Raymond just built a set of lines for the Echo race car. He’s been making my bike and car lines for years. Extremely high quality and 1/2 the price of anywhere else. Funny aside; Raymond is interested in finding an ex-Toyota Echo Cup car for himself. His son is carting and he wants a car they can use for lapping days and other track events......

[Stev-o]

+1 for Apex lines...

http://www.apexbrakes.com/custom.asp

[Don R]

 I've had a couple that swelled inside over the years. Recently a couple old car TV episodes showed swelled closed brake hoses that made me more aware. I usually only replaced ones with dry rot or cracking, I may take another look at that. 

[Deltarider]

My brake operates fine, there's no sign of wear of the outer protective tube and I have no indication that the inner tube where the fluid passes, can age. Brake fluid is nasty and aggresive stuff. It seems to me the inner tube is of such material that it can withstand it and there's no danger the brake fluid will eat it. If it would, that would be happening much sooner than any period in the maintenance scedule could prevent. What I can understand, is that manufacturers advise to nonetheless replace the tubes after a certain period of time to be a step ahead of possible wear of the outer protective tube. If my outer tube is not damaged, shows no sign of age whatsoever, I conclude nothing is wrong and I prefer to leave things where they are. I'm not looking for work I can avoid.

[Kelly E]

My brake operates fine, there's no sign of wear of the outer protective tube and I have no indication that the inner tube where the fluid passes, can age. Brake fluid is nasty and aggresive stuff. It seems to me the inner tube is of such material that it can withstand it and there's no danger the brake fluid will eat it. If it would, that would be happening much sooner than any period in the maintenance scedule could prevent. What I can understand, is that manufacturers advise to nonetheless replace the tubes after a certain period of time to be a step ahead of possible wear of the outer protective tube. If my outer tube is not damaged, shows no sign of age whatsoever, I conclude nothing is wrong and I prefer to leave things where they are. I'm not looking for work I can avoid.

You can ignore the facts if you want but brake hoses can and do go bad. I've seen many bad brake hoses and they do go bad internally. Quite often a bad hose will prevent the caliper from releasing.

[newday777]

My brake operates fine, there's no sign of wear of the outer protective tube and I have no indication that the inner tube where the fluid passes, can age. Brake fluid is nasty and aggresive stuff. It seems to me the inner tube is of such material that it can withstand it and there's no danger the brake fluid will eat it. If it would, that would be happening much sooner than any period in the maintenance scedule could prevent. What I can understand, is that manufacturers advise to nonetheless replace the tubes after a certain period of time to be a step ahead of possible wear of the outer protective tube. If my outer tube is not damaged, shows no sign of age whatsoever, I conclude nothing is wrong and I prefer to leave things where they are. I'm not looking for work I can avoid.

You can ignore the facts if you want but brake hoses can and do go bad. I've seen many bad brake hoses and they do go bad internally. Quite often a bad hose will prevent the caliper from releasing.

Here you go deltarider........

[PeWe]

Got new brake hoses to my car today. 
The vehicle inspection warned me about rear cracking last year before next inspection complaints and revisit.

[Deltarider]

Dunno if you can compare that with his Merc to mine. My bike has never been parked for 15 years and I don't know if there's any steel in our OEM lines.  Actually the fluid that had been in there for at least 12 years, at least, wasn't that bad. I serviced it the other day though, because a friend of mine did his on his XS650 that had been parked in my garage for 15 years. Although his piston was stuck, his fluid came out like new. Not trying to be stubborn but, other than in that video, my lines pass fluid like new and the brake doesn't bind. What I did do though was replace the nipple by a new one. The old one needed locking pliers to free.

[PeWe]

The hose test mentioned earlier in this thread a good thing to remember.

My K2 has a mix, steel braided at top, cheap Cruzinimage stock style from brake switch to caliper.
The Cruzinimage kit had not top hose in 300mm length, it had much longer for US bars style.
Reused an extra SS I had.

[BenelliSEI]

My brake operates fine, there's no sign of wear of the outer protective tube and I have no indication that the inner tube where the fluid passes, can age. Brake fluid is nasty and aggresive stuff. It seems to me the inner tube is of such material that it can withstand it and there's no danger the brake fluid will eat it. If it would, that would be happening much sooner than any period in the maintenance scedule could prevent. What I can understand, is that manufacturers advise to nonetheless replace the tubes after a certain period of time to be a step ahead of possible wear of the outer protective tube. If my outer tube is not damaged, shows no sign of age whatsoever, I conclude nothing is wrong and I prefer to leave things where they are. I'm not looking for work I can avoid.

Did you read my previous post (two up from yours)? As you can discount my observations so freely, pardon me if I ignore your conclusions completely. Have a very pleasant day.