Topic: Brake hoses

[70CB750]

I learned something new.  Modern motorcycle manuals list the life span of brake hoses as 4 or 5 years.  Do you replace your brake hoses every few years? 

I have to admit I never even thought of that - and on all my old vehicles I experienced one leaking brake line - 2004 Grand Cherokee - and it was a steel line that rusted though near the exhaust. 

Opinion?

[newday777]

I just replaced the hoses on my K5 with Stainless Steel hoses. A big improvement over the new old stock rubber hoses I put 3 years ago.

[PeWe]

4-5 years feels short.
I need to replace the rear hoses on my car since there are small visible cracks. Dry rubber.
Seen after 18 years and close to 200.000km.
Inspect every 4-5 years

[Deltarider]

[...]  Modern motorcycle manuals list the life span of brake hoses as 4 or 5 years.  Do you replace your brake hoses every few years? 

The lines on mine are still the originals the bike got at the assembly line in 1976 and I have not yet discovered indication they need to be replaced. Except for rides, bike is in a garage with no UV light. During summer holidays bike has received high doses of UV light however. But I'll do another inspection with a magnifying glass.
Coincidally yesterday I was discussing brake lines with a friend who's XS650 is in my garage. His bike has now sat for 12 years in my garage and the other day I have persuaded him to bring it back to live. Although the brake piston was stuck, surprisingly the brake fluid came out like new. Piston and caliper are now in his ultrasonic cleaner, he normally uses for cleaning music instruments like bandoneons.
He once had mounted a second disk, but wasn't happy with it. He removed it and sold the extra disk. 
If you allow me a side step... although there's a very active XS650 club in the Netherlands, he's still on the lookout for the appropiate documents like a scan of an Owner's Manual. This because his model - a XS6502F framenumber: 2F0-2557xx, has been imported from the US, where it was marketed around 1979.

[70CB750]

A guy I know in Switzerland says brake hoses are part of safety inspection. 

Newday:  same experience.

[bryanj]

Condition of hoses is part of a uk mot, any visible cracking is a fail as are excessively rust crimp ferrules.
Never seen a recomendation on hose change but fluid should be changed every 3ish years as it absorbs water

[Deltarider]

Does any of you use a simple brake fluid tester?

[bryanj]

Nope, cheaper to change it

[newday777]

Condition of hoses is part of a uk mot, any visible cracking is a fail as are excessively rust crimp ferrules.
Never seen a recomendation on hose change but fluid should be changed every 3ish years as it absorbs water

Yes the moisture absorbed is the problem.
Honda recommends 24 months of the brake fluid flush and bleed in the newer service manuals of today's bikes. Part of the recommended list is inspection of the hoses.

The moisture absorbed in the fluid causes damage unseen on the inside, long before the rubber cracks you end up seeing on the outside. That internal damage causes the rubber hoses to expand rather than getting the full push of the fluid pressure to the caliper piston to get you to stop. That is why the stainless steel brake hoses were developed and the huge difference in stopping power that is felt when changing the hoses to stainless steel.
And yes, even stainless steel brake hoses have rubber in them so they are flexible to route them where you want them to go. It's the outer stainless mesh that helps hold the rubber inside from expanding and loosing pressure to the pistons that makes your bike stop better.
And BTW, changing your hoses to New Old Stock rubber hoses is only good for display bikes, not rider bikes. They look good on the outside but will fail sooner than buying fresh new made hoses. Unfortunately there are no dates stamped in the hoses to know when they were manufactured like the date codes required on tires.......
 
I highly recommend yearly flush and bleed, especially if you live in high heat areas as that causes moisture buildup into the systems(brake and clutch), be it in hot sheds/garages, bikes stored outside under dark bike covers or out riding in the heat and rain. I've worked on goldwings at shops doing maintenance on them (and brought back to life long neglected, deep sleep goldwings and CB750s) and many owners fail miserably at keeping up on preventative maintenance like flushing the brake and clutch fluid often enough. I've seen thick gray sludge and even deep redish brown sludge built-up in the reservoir of many master cylinders and that sludge travels down into the calipers (and slave cylinders) getting in behind the seals in the seal grooves causing leaks of the fluid and the pistons to stick. I've even found crusty dried brake fluid that resembles brown sugar in the reservoir and hoses/hard brake lines in the deep sleep bikes I've worked on.

[robvangulik]

 
And yes, even stainless steel brake hoses have rubber in them so they are flexible to route them where you want them to go. It's the outer stainless mesh that helps hold the rubber inside from expanding and loosing pressure to the pistons that makes your bike stop better.
 Unfortunately there are no dates stamped in the hoses to know when they were manufactured like the date codes required on tires.......
 
I highly recommend yearly flush and bleed, especially if you live in high heat areas as that causes moisture buildup into the systems(brake and clutch), be it in hot sheds/garages, bikes stored outside under dark bike covers or out riding in the heat and rain.

Most stainless wound brakelines have Teflon inner cores, the steel lining protects the lines from damage by rubbing to other bikeparts.
And Honda has stamped dates on brakelines since the stone age, see my pic, top to bottom
77, 79, 92, 86 and 80, which is correct for the years I replaced them in successive bikes.
I had some older lines, but those weren't readable anymore

[WideAWAKE]

[...]  Modern motorcycle manuals list the life span of brake hoses as 4 or 5 years.  Do you replace your brake hoses every few years? 

The lines on mine are still the originals the bike got at the assembly line in 1976 and I have not yet discovered indication they need to be replaced. Except for rides, bike is in a garage with no UV light. During summer holidays bike has received high doses of UV light however. But I'll do another inspection with a magnifying glass.
Coincidally yesterday I was discussing brake lines with a friend who's XS650 is in my garage. His bike has now sat for 12 years in my garage and the other day I have persuaded him to bring it back to live. Although the brake piston was stuck, surprisingly the brake fluid came out like new. Piston and caliper are now in his ultrasonic cleaner, he normally uses for cleaning music instruments like bandoneons.
He once had mounted a second disk, but wasn't happy with it. He removed it and sold the extra disk. 
If you allow me a side step... although there's a very active XS650 club in the Netherlands, he's still on the lookout for the appropiate documents like a scan of an Owner's Manual. This because his model - a XS6502F framenumber: 2F0-2557xx, has been imported from the US, where it was marketed around 1979.

Xs650.com

Has more info and people who know them inside and out (every minute off the detail) then you could ever need.

If his double disc were stock, that’s a lot of weight up front.

I have doubles on one of mine but they are light weight discs. Excellent upgrade. Less than half the weight of a stock single disc.

[Deltarider]

Thanks!

[dave500]

i guess the average old bike with hydraulic front disc has about 150ml of fluid?just change it out once a year?=$3.73c?

[WhyNot2]

I just replaced the hoses on my K5 with Stainless Steel hoses. A big improvement over the new old stock rubber hoses I put 3 years ago.

Same here, made a big difference. Newly rebuilt caliper, and still stuck until I changed the hoses.

[vaskeet]

One of the checks I make is to grab the brake hose and work the lever with the other.  If I feel any expansion of the hose under pressure it gets replaced

[Deltarider]

One of the checks I make is to grab the brake hose and work the lever with the other.  If I feel any expansion of the hose under pressure it gets replaced

I just wonder if you wouldn't feel expansion (a little) with new OEM lines...

[vaskeet]

I have been doing this check for years and have only replaced a few lines. I cant 100% say that you will not feel a surge/expansion on some bikes (with new lines) just that none of the over 20 bikes I have owned did. the few I replaced did not swell after hose replacement but they were replaced with braided SS hoses

[WideAWAKE]

One of the checks I make is to grab the brake hose and work the lever with the other.  If I feel any expansion of the hose under pressure it gets replaced

I just wonder if you wouldn't feel expansion (a little) with new OEM lines...

In my experience, yes even with new oem lines you feel some bulge in the line.

Stainless really makes a difference.

Another thing that helps is to eliminate 2 piece lines (if you got em on a single disc set up, no elimination on a dual disc). Stainless straight to the caliper (or metal line ).

[Kelly E]

One of the checks I make is to grab the brake hose and work the lever with the other.  If I feel any expansion of the hose under pressure it gets replaced

I just wonder if you wouldn't feel expansion (a little) with new OEM lines...

In my experience, yes even with new oem lines you feel some bulge in the line.

Stainless really makes a difference.

Another thing that helps is to eliminate 2 piece lines (if you got em on a single disc set up, no elimination on a dual disc). Stainless straight to the caliper (or metal line ).

You can use a double banjo bolt at the master cylinder and run a one piece line to each caliper for dual discs.

[WideAWAKE]

One of the checks I make is to grab the brake hose and work the lever with the other.  If I feel any expansion of the hose under pressure it gets replaced

I just wonder if you wouldn't feel expansion (a little) with new OEM lines...

In my experience, yes even with new oem lines you feel some bulge in the line.

Stainless really makes a difference.

Another thing that helps is to eliminate 2 piece lines (if you got em on a single disc set up, no elimination on a dual disc). Stainless straight to the caliper (or metal line ).

You can use a double banjo bolt at the master cylinder and run a one piece line to each caliper for dual discs.

That’s correct.

Good idea!

 I guess I’ve never had a set up with enough space to do that.

[70CB750]

One of the checks I make is to grab the brake hose and work the lever with the other.  If I feel any expansion of the hose under pressure it gets replaced

I just wonder if you wouldn't feel expansion (a little) with new OEM lines...

In my experience, yes even with new oem lines you feel some bulge in the line.

Stainless really makes a difference.

Another thing that helps is to eliminate 2 piece lines (if you got em on a single disc set up, no elimination on a dual disc). Stainless straight to the caliper (or metal line ).

You can use a double banjo bolt at the master cylinder and run a one piece line to each caliper for dual discs.

Thats how i added second front brake to Dorothty.

[bryanj]

Only trouble with that is you need a master with mechanical brake light switch or a banjo bolt with an internal one

[Deltarider]

'Only trouble is... etc.' for me translates into too much trouble. My OEM single disk front brake in combination with the drum in the rear delivers more than enough stopping power and is well within what the law - even today - requires. In the past I have considered looking for means to improve the front brake's performance in the wet, but older and wiser now, I've dropped the idea. Gentlemen don't ride in rain.

[Bankerdanny]

My '77 550K and '77 GL1000 both had (as far as I know) original hoses and I never gave it much thought. My 550F and 750F both got upgrades to stainless just because.

[vaskeet]

One of the checks I make is to grab the brake hose and work the lever with the other.  If I feel any expansion of the hose under pressure it gets replaced

I just wonder if you wouldn't feel expansion (a little) with new OEM lines...

In my experience, yes even with new oem lines you feel some bulge in the line.

Stainless really makes a difference.

Another thing that helps is to eliminate 2 piece lines (if you got em on a single disc set up, no elimination on a dual disc). Stainless straight to the caliper (or metal line ).

You can use a double banjo bolt at the master cylinder and run a one piece line to each caliper for dual discs.

I feel the line get harder/straighten but no bulge the ones that I found bad were a definite expansion when the lever was pulled. its hard to explain but I know what feels bad and its a different feel