Author Topic: Honda 400/4....helicoil on sparkplug hole thread ?  (Read 629 times)

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Offline joeloss1

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Honda 400/4....helicoil on sparkplug hole thread ?
« on: December 18, 2022, 09:49:33 AM »
Found my 400/4 poor running is probably due to mangled thread on no: 3 cylinder. I've read various comments on this and am still unsure which way to go or just get someone else to do it. The plug goes in but slips as I try to finish tightening. So.....helicoil/backtap tool(if I can find one in UK)..?..I was thinking helicoil with grease and care to catch shavings and maybe also vacuuming out cylinder with an adapted hose from vacuum-cleaner. Or maybe just a thread-chaser which I have ? If the head has to come off, I'll chicken out and let someone else do the job. When I inspected plug it was loose in it's hole so I guess a good run  blows it loose at the moment. Only got the bike recently. Any input very welcome.

John....(in sunny Worthing,UK).

Online bryanj

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Re: Honda 400/4....helicoil on sparkplug hole thread ?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2022, 10:16:04 AM »
Helicoil in situ is not easy but can be done. Risk of swarf in cylinder is there but if it does get in valve ally swarf should not damage valve and just means you have to take head off anyway so could be worth trying.
Did a 350 head for a member using US Pro repair kits but each kit only has 1 suitable insert so you need four kits and definately need head off for those.
Worthing is not that far from Gloucester in the great scheme of things if you can get it here
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Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Honda 400/4....helicoil on sparkplug hole thread ?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2022, 06:25:58 AM »
If you join us on the UK Forum, you will get more local responses 😊😊😊
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Offline Tim2005

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Re: Honda 400/4....helicoil on sparkplug hole thread ?
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2022, 12:00:13 PM »

The access to number 3 is pretty difficult, especially for drilling and tapping threads.

Compressed air, vacuum, grease and anything else are all worth trying (do all 3 even) but nothing is guaranteed to get all the debris out.

Personally due to the access problem I'd whip the head off anyway, it only takes an hour or two.

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Honda 400/4....helicoil on sparkplug hole thread ?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2022, 12:48:10 PM »
It is unlikely a tap or thread chaser will help. If the plug won’t tighten up there probably isn’t enough material left to repair.....

If only the first few threads are damaged (usually indicated by a plug that won’t start straight and then immediately jams tight) there is a special split “back tap” that collapses (there is a cone shaped wedge in the leading end). You insert in the hole and then pull back on the cone to “grow” the tap to the correct size. Then carefully engage it in the bottom threads (undamaged), and back it out. I have used one to correct minor damage, with great success. As I said, it only corrects minor damage at the top of the hole.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Honda 400/4....helicoil on sparkplug hole thread ?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2022, 04:58:11 PM »
The #3 often gets stripped because the tach cable drive is right there. It is made for easy removal so the plug can go in/out, so while you're working in there, take a look at how you do that, so you can save yourself this grief later.

Something important to know in the 350/400 head when installing Helicoils: do not drill all the way thru the hole to tap to the last thread. Instead, stop about 1-2 threads short of the end and install the new threads above there. This will prevent something I have seen in the 350/400/500/550 engines before where installing the whole threaded length can also let a cock-eyed sparkplug force those threads down into the cylinder head, one day in the future, and then the threads and piston collide. Very expensive to fix!

And, it happens in the #3 cylinder, because the wrenched was too lazy (or didn't know) to remove the tach cable before installing the sparkplug.
BTW: this happens on the 500/550 more often than on the 350F/400F, in my experience - or, maybe because there are more of them out there?
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Offline ozm29c

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Re: Honda 400/4....helicoil on sparkplug hole thread ?
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2022, 02:25:46 PM »
In view of Hondamans advice, perhaps using a Time-Sert would be a better choice than a Helicoil?
http://www.timesert.com/html/sparkplug.html

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Honda 400/4....helicoil on sparkplug hole thread ?
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2022, 07:13:35 PM »
In view of Hondamans advice, perhaps using a Time-Sert would be a better choice than a Helicoil?
http://www.timesert.com/html/sparkplug.html


There's actually not enough space in these holes to be able to use a Time-sert. :(
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline Geoff Hastings

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Re: Honda 400/4....helicoil on sparkplug hole thread ?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2023, 10:06:42 AM »
I’ve just heli- coiled the plug in my sons 550 and the problem you will be up against doing it in situ is drilling the old thread out and keeping the drill square to the existing hole. If you go in slightly out the drill could touch the valve seat. You will also need an extra long drill bit and a holder for the tap that will fit into the plug access hole. Getting the head off really is a straight forward job and you can renew the little o rings in the head that eventually leak. Just as an aside, when I took the head off the non sprung tensioner had snapped off the locating lugs and was dislodged to one side. Amazingly the engine was not rattling or making any strange noises but it could have been disastrous had it thrown the cam chain.