Topic: What are the advantages/disadvantages to switching to electronic ignition?

[cfairweather]

I don't know about the CB550, but I have three 1971 CB750s and all of them use electronic ignitions. One uses a Pamco and the other two use the Dyna S style. The Pamco uses 2.5 ohm coils and the Dyna clones use the 4.3 ohm coils. All three bikes are completely stock when it comes to the electrical systems and they have no problem with charging.  The electrical system on the CB750 is adequate for these electronic ignition systems.

[Bodi]

You can't compare modern and 40ish year old models. Today's have EI and EFI. Their alternators supply enough power for all that, naturally.
Our old bikes make enough wattage for the original equipment with a margin to charge the battery at riding RPM.
I do not believe an SOHC4 will charge at idle with a 55W headlight, Dyna S, and 3 Ohm coils. Unless the idle is 3500RPM.

[cfairweather]

I am only saying that a CB750 using an electronic ignition works just fine and many people use these without issues including me.  Mine always starts just fine, so they must be charging.  Interesting that you bring up new machines that you claim are able to "naturally" charge so I assume you mean at idle.  My BMW dealer mechanic told me that my 2013 BMW needs to rev over 3000 to get the battery charging.  I don't know about that either, but I will say, my CB750s start as reliably as my 2013 BMW RT1200.   

[vames]

I can only attest to my own bike, but I run a CB400f with a Dyna S, a 35/35 headlamp and a 9-year old cheapo AGM battery. It's always fully charged.

Previous riding was in New York City with lots of stop and go. Now most of my riding is 7 miles each way to/from work on the streets with some stop/go in California. It's charging fine and I have about 7500 trouble-free miles with the Dyna. 

[Bankerdanny]

There are pros and cons to both and no one right answer. I have had both good and bad luck with various electronic ignitions, but also with points and even Hondaman's ignition (although in the end the problem was with the Honda wiring and not Hondaman's kit).

If good quality points and condensers were easy to find then I would say stay with points. It isn't hard to keep them adjusted and they are easy to deal with at the side of the road. But bad points and condensers are mostly what you find these days, so I would say go ahead and make the switch if your points need replacing. If your ignition is working fine, then I wouldn't bother with the expense of EI and would consider the Hondaman transistorized ignition, which is a hybrid system that retains the points, but releives them of the job of carrying ignition current, making them last longer.

Right now I have a completely stock points setup on my 750F, I had to fight with it and trace down some wiring issues, but after I solved them this Spring it has started first time every time for the past 7 months with no maintenance on my part.

[PeWe]

As sparepart......
Maybe a tested and test adjusted point plate with markings for quick setup on bike beside the road would be packed with the luggage on a 3000-4000 mile holiday if bike has electronic like Dyna-S ?

I got a point failure once in France. The bakelite part against cam broke on one point. This after not that long use. Maybe 4000km, new before the holiday.

Not TEC, Daiichi. I had to ride around 100 km to. Honda shop that could repair it using another point.
CB750 was out of the market 1988 so no parts

[HondaMan]

As sparepart......
Maybe a tested and test adjusted point plate with markings for quick setup on bike beside the road would be packed with the luggage on a 3000-4000 mile holiday if bike has electronic like Dyna-S ?

I got a point failure once in France. The bakelite part against cam broke on one point. This after not that long use. Maybe 4000km, new before the holiday.

Not TEC, Daiichi. I had to ride around 100 km to. Honda shop that could repair it using another point.
CB750 was out of the market 1988 so no parts

Yep. even back 'in the day' I carried a spare points plate on long trips. I would spend the cold winter days setting it in place and punch-marking it to align with punch-marks I made on the engine (the week after I bought this bike) so I could change it quickly if needed. We called it the "hot swap" as it might have to be done on the side of an Interstate, and if you've never done that, it is...exciting at best!

[Rookster]

It's Ok if you run a business here, but do it fairly. BTW rules on this in the European fora are much stricter. You wouldn't be allowed to advertise in the forum. But here, like in the rest of the US, there's no escaping from advertising and propaganda. We in Europe watch the results of that spreading false information with horror.

Delta, I don't think there is anyone other than you that would accuse Hondaman of being unfair.  You could have made your point without taking shots at Hondaman, America and this very forum.

Scott

[bryanj]

Mark(hondaman) has spent time and effort both writing a book and designing several upgrades for ignitiom, fuses etc and at the prices he sells for i oubt he is making a profit and definately not a "living" from it. I have in the past tried to source items to help out and when i did oil pump kits for the 500/550 i was told they were too expensive at break even cost not including the time to measure, source and collect the O rings so when the minimum order went up to £100 for any one size i gave up.

[rotortiller]

I don't think there is anyone other than you that would accuse Hondaman of being unfair.

I see him trashing Tytronics ignition often enough in order to promote his interests while having absolutely no first hand product experience  lol. Also like any place in this world you also have 'nut swingers'.   Excuse my bluntness please.

[ekpent]

It's Ok if you run a business here, but do it fairly. BTW rules on this in the European fora are much stricter. You wouldn't be allowed to advertise in the forum. But here, like in the rest of the US, there's no escaping from advertising and propaganda. We in Europe watch the results of that spreading false information with horror.

Delta, I don't think there is anyone other than you that would accuse Hondaman of being unfair.  You could have made your point without taking shots at Hondaman, America and this very forum.  Who hurt you?

Scott

Quote - We in Europe watch the results of that spreading misinformation with horror" - Give me a freakin' break. You guys have enough to deal with over there then to be worrying your little self about what happens here.

[HondaMan]

...at the prices he sells for i [d]oubt he is making a profit and definately not a "living" from it.

You nailed that one, Bryan! I make $8 on each Ignition, in the end, and $6 on Fuseblocks. I only do it because of what these bikes have meant to me for 50 years, and hope someone else catches the fever (disease?) with a little help. It works out to about $0.25 per hour for assembly and testing. 
Once (2010) an investor came to me with an offer of "going public" with these gizmos (because these work in all the Japanese bikes), and many others that I have designed and built over the years (for cars, tractors, and other such stuff). But, the 'deal' meant these parts would double in price, and I wasn't willing to do that: he didn't understand that AT ALL, so we just parted ways, friends...maybe...? Haven't seen him in quite a while, now that I think of it!

[dave500]

its the same old what ever floats ya boat,electronic is here to stay,so are points in old vehicles of any sort,anyone with savvy can tweak worn out points to get home,electronic is futzed if its #$%*ed,lotta guys cant tweak points road side anyway let alone set em up brand new?

[bryanj]

Its not Boyer & Bransden its just Boyer Bransden and was the first and most reliable UK electronic replacement, family firm and very helpful

[dave500]

ill attest to that,years ago i bought a used boyer but unused here in Australia,it was clean and still in the box,it was the basic unit using your factory coils,after about 18 months it had a cut out intermittent dead spark,i emailed them explaining i believe its the unit box and they asked for a photo of the code on the side,they shipped me from England at no cost a new unit!try that with Dyna or who ever?

[Deltarider]

I don't think there is anyone other than you that would accuse Hondaman of being unfair.

I see him trashing Tytronics ignition often enough in order to promote his interests while having absolutely no first hand product experience  lol. Also like any place in this world you also have 'nut swingers'.   Excuse my bluntness please.

That hasn't escaped my attention. That's why I felt forced to make my critical remark. It seems that some here criticise me for being blasphemous. Personally I'd rather stay away from religion and blind admiration in particular. Anyone can be the subject of criticism and I hope we all feel free to criticise when it's needed. I welcome to be criticised myself.

[HondaMan]

I don't think there is anyone other than you that would accuse Hondaman of being unfair.

I see him trashing Tytronics ignition often enough in order to promote his interests while having absolutely no first hand product experience  lol. Also like any place in this world you also have 'nut swingers'.   Excuse my bluntness please.

That hasn't escaped my attention. That's why I felt forced to make my critical remark. It seems that some here criticise me for being blasphemous. Personally I'd rather stay away from religion and blind admiration in particular. Anyone can be the subject of criticism and I hope we all feel free to criticise when it's needed. I welcome to be criticised myself.

It's all right, Delta: while most here only see my 'successes', that's 'cuz I don't make much of the 'failures'.
So far this life, my 'failures' are outnumbering my 'successes' by multiples, including things built/rebuilt/invented (or, not quite), and do-overs.
In the end, it's all about tenacity.

[70CB750]

100% of all the electronic ignitions out there today (except mine, but more on this below...) will use more electrical power than your 550 can even generate.

That statement is wrong. Millions have proved you can run an EI and even a 55/60Watts H4 on our bikes without a problem. It depends which. Dyna's maybe a problem with a ridiculous dwell nobody needs. But most products are fine to use. I'd wish you'd stop scaring people. It's Ok if you run a business here, but do it fairly. BTW rules on this in the European fora are much stricter. You wouldn't be allowed to advertise in the forum. But here, like in the rest of the US, there's no escaping from advertising and propaganda. We in Europe watch the results of that spreading false information with horror.

Maybe you and few people like you - but that's not Europe.  Get a life!

[C317414]

Its not Boyer & Bransden its just Boyer Bransden and was the first and most reliable UK electronic replacement, family firm and very helpful

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and SOHC/4 Hondas, having just acquired a very nice, low mileage CB550F.  I've owned and/or restored a large number of motorcycles, and worked at a British bike shop in the late 70s.  I've installed and used many Boyer Brandsen ignitions over the years, and found them to be extremely reliable.  The one in my Norton Commando, for example is over 40 years old, and is still running great.  I like having the advance curve electronically controlled, since advance mechanisms do wear out.

The downside to early Boyer ignitions was that the minimum working voltage was a bit too high.  They would not work with a battery at a low state of charge, but with enough charge to work with a conventional points ignition.  This created a problem when installing a Boyer in MKIII Norton Commandos, and Triumph T-160s, both with electric start.  The voltage drop during start on those bikes was too much, and prevented the Boyer from firing.  This rendered the electric start feature useless.  Later Boyer ignitions had the minimum voltage lowered to 10 VDC, and this solved the problem. 



 

[newday777]

Its not Boyer & Bransden its just Boyer Bransden and was the first and most reliable UK electronic replacement, family firm and very helpful

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and SOHC/4 Hondas, having just acquired a very nice, low mileage CB550F.  I've owned and/or restored a large number of motorcycles, and worked at a British bike shop in the late 70s.  I've installed and used many Boyer Brandsen ignitions over the years, and found them to be extremely reliable.  The one in my Norton Commando, for example is over 40 years old, and is still running great.  I like having the advance curve electronically controlled, since advance mechanisms do wear out.

The downside to early Boyer ignitions was that the minimum working voltage was a bit too high.  They would not work with a battery at a low state of charge, but with enough charge to work with a conventional points ignition.  This created a problem when installing a Boyer in MKIII Norton Commandos, and Triumph T-160s, both with electric start.  The voltage drop during start on those bikes was too much, and prevented the Boyer from firing.  This rendered the electric start feature useless.  Later Boyer ignitions had the minimum voltage lowered to 10 VDC, and this solved the problem.

Welcome aboard Raul.
Go to the new members section and introduce yourself and your bike. Pictures are always welcome.

[MauiK3]

Yes, welcome.
This forum is generally very congenial and stays away from most things, sticking to the main subject, SOHC Hondas.
Good forum.

[PeWe]

Good with additional information based on experiences