Topic: Terry's Kawasaki Mach III 500 build. Let the smoke begin.....

[MauiK3]

Yes, POR15 needs a top coat, as a base coat it is hard to beat, it brushes on. Then I use their chassis black spray over the top. What you get is a very tough under coat that does not have a tendency to chip. Good stuff.

[Stev-o]

What you get is a very tough under coat that does not have a tendency to chip.

Not sure what you guys are doing to chip your paint [other than careless engine install] but I've powdercoated at least 5 frames and this has not been an issue for me. My guy charged $100 to blast and coat, that was a no brainer for me.



Nothin' like fresh powder!

[grcamna2]

What you get is a very tough under coat that does not have a tendency to chip.

Not sure what you guys are doing to chip your paint [other than careless engine install] but I've powdercoated at least 5 frames and this has not been an issue for me. My guy charged $100 to blast and coat, that was a no brainer for me.



Nothin' like fresh powder!

Yeah Man 

[grcamna2]

I’m a fan of POR 15 as most of you know. It goes on easily and is very, very tough and chip resistant

Thanks Steve, I like Rustoleum, it’s cheap (like me) can be sprayed at any angle and dries before the bugs can settle in it.

The issue I found with POR 15 is that it will turn gray when exposed to sunlight (UV).

POR15 rust preventative paint original formula has to be top coated as it doesn’t contain UV inhibitors. Clearly says that on the can.  POR15 Chassis Black is UV stable and won’t turn gray or brown…
Different product…
It is suitable for frame paint. Their engine paints are also UV stable but they go on pretty thick…

Epoxy appliance paint is a pretty good frame paint…

But spraying frames is messy with lots of overspray…just the nature of the beast unfortunately, no way around it when spraying tubular steel.

I used a can of Rustoleum black epoxy appliance paint and it was a match for the stock frame paint(maybe a little more flat)but was curious why they printed on the can "for indoor use only" ?

[jgger]

Wow, Terry! I'm impressed, less than a week and you are up to 3 pages on this thread about the Mach lll. You sure have a lot of company "smoking in the boys room " . I think we all have a Kawasaki triple story from our youth, they were a very unique bike for sure!

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks guys, I think the “paint vs powdercoat” thing is like oil, tyre and ignition threads, everyone has an opinion. Powdercoating is expensive here, you won’t get any change out of 500 bucks to have a frame and swingarm blasted and coated, so considering the finish is no better than a good paint job, I don’t really see the point, except that it’s easy.

Vapor blasting, on the other hand, is essential so I’m going to invest in getting my engine cases, cylinders and heads done before I reassemble the engine and plop it back into the frame. I need to buy new pistons and a complete gasket and seal kit for the engine and get the crank looked at, so whatever money I can save by painting the frame I can spend on stuff I need, as opposed to “niceties” like powder coating. The original factory paint lasted for almost 50 years, so if it need’s restoring in another 50 years, then it’s done it’s job.

[grcamna2]

Thanks guys, I think the “paint vs powdercoat” thing is like oil, tyre and ignition threads, everyone has an opinion. Powdercoating is expensive here, you won’t get any change out of 500 bucks to have a frame and swingarm blasted and coated, so considering the finish is no better than a good paint job, I don’t really see the point, except that it’s easy.

Vapor blasting, on the other hand, is essential so I’m going to invest in getting my engine cases, cylinders and heads done before I reassemble the engine and plop it back into the frame. I need to buy new pistons and a complete gasket and seal kit for the engine and get the crank looked at, so whatever money I can save by painting the frame I can spend on stuff I need, as opposed to “niceties” like powder coating. The original factory paint lasted for almost 50 years, so if it need’s restoring in another 50 years, then it’s done it’s job.

The vapor blasting will really bring-out the charming 'shine' to your triple.

[BenelliSEI]

+1 on the vapour blasting. My first experience was just a few weeks ago and totally “SOLD”!

[MauiK3]

Yes, frame paint is one of those “trigger” things.
As always, there are several good solutions.

[Terry in Australia]

Yep I think I’ll take Steve’s earlier advice and order a new sticker from Rick Brett and get my frame blasted, then paint it. 3 new ignition coils were just delivered so I’m hoping the original ignition is all there and still working. There are 3 “black boxes” for the ignition mounted on the electrical panel and an ignition plate in a tub with only one pickup on it so I’m hoping there’s a rotor somewhere, Dion packed all the small pieces in “take out” food containers, so with luck the rest of the bits needed to make sparks will be there somewhere. ; D

[HondaMan]

I was looking at the fork tubes yesterday and see that the disc brake models went from 34mm tubes to 36 (same OD as our Z1’s) so I wonder if Kawasaki made an attempt to improve the handling of the later models?

Hey Terry...yes, they made some changes in order to make the bike more "civilized". I believe the swingarm is longer on the later models too.

The blue tins look magnificent, I would use them too. I'm sure you know it is not correct for that year, but who cares?! [Candy Blue was a '71 color]

http://kawatriple.com/serialno.html

Great color!
That version has the points ignition, no? I built some triple Transistorized Ignitions for some of those with points.

[Terry in Australia]

I was looking at the fork tubes yesterday and see that the disc brake models went from 34mm tubes to 36 (same OD as our Z1’s) so I wonder if Kawasaki made an attempt to improve the handling of the later models?

Hey Terry...yes, they made some changes in order to make the bike more "civilized". I believe the swingarm is longer on the later models too.

The blue tins look magnificent, I would use them too. I'm sure you know it is not correct for that year, but who cares?! [Candy Blue was a '71 color]

http://kawatriple.com/serialno.html

Great color!
That version has the points ignition, no? I built some triple Transistorized Ignitions for some of those with points.

I'm no expert Mark, so I had to check, but no, my model came with an electronic ignition from the factory.

[Stev-o]

I was looking at the fork tubes yesterday and see that the disc brake models went from 34mm tubes to 36 (same OD as our Z1’s) so I wonder if Kawasaki made an attempt to improve the handling of the later models?

Hey Terry...yes, they made some changes in order to make the bike more "civilized". I believe the swingarm is longer on the later models too.

The blue tins look magnificent, I would use them too. I'm sure you know it is not correct for that year, but who cares?! [Candy Blue was a '71 color]

http://kawatriple.com/serialno.html

Great color!
That version has the points ignition, no? I built some triple Transistorized Ignitions for some of those with points.

I'm no expert Mark, so I had to check, but no, my model came with an electronic ignition from the factory.

Only 1 year of the H1 came with points, oddly not the first model, but midway through the model run [1972].  And unlike our SOHC Hondas, a good battery is not necessary for the bike to start and run, although at times I wish they had electric starters!

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah I was pretty sure that there was at least one model with points Steve, which was strange as my mate Davey’s 1960’s era “Avenger” twin cylinder smokers had electronic ignitions. I’m just hoping that I have all of the necessary parts for mine. I’ve just ordered the factory parts and workshop manuals from the guy in New Zealand that I bought my Suzuki and Kawasaki Z1 manuals from so I can do a stocktake of what I have and see what I need to scrounge together.

I’ve also discovered (thanks to Steve again) that while my engine numbers are close to my frame numbers, they’re actually not right for a ‘73 or ‘74 model H1, so I’ll contact Keith Davis in the US and see if he has a set in the right numbers range. It won’t slow the build as I’ll still put an engine together to get it on the road, but once I find a closer set, I’ll then build another engine that’s “number’s correct” to my frame.

[ekpent]

  I think Kawasaki was pretty proud of the electronic ignition in the 1969 and 1970 500 (want one - want one  ) that they dedicated the whole right side oil cover to it.

[jgger]

The first shot at their new fangled ignition had it's issues ( on the white bikes) . The gray and red versions were much better!

[Terry in Australia]

Yes I remember Davey telling me how he was almost electrocuted on his 350 Avenger on a wet day, I don't remember the detail, apart from the ignition could give you a pretty good shock.

[Terry in Australia]

Well we all know that I'm an idiot, but it's not often that I'm happy to admit it. The last few days I've been worrying about the engine number not being correct for the '74 frame, and I even asked Keith Davis to reach out to his Kawasaki buddies to see if they had a "numbers correct" set. I was sitting outside having a smoke and saw the cases so took another look at the number, and for the first time, saw that there was a 9 in front of the 3?

I jumped back on the website that Steve posted a link to, and fcuk me sideways, they're a match for an early 1974 H1-E! According to the chart, by my calculations the engine and frame numbers are only 201 apart. Woohoo! I sent a message to Keith apologising profusely, but I still need some other parts, so if he's still talking to me, it'll be fine. Dion told me that these cases came out of that frame, I'll never doubt him again! Sorry about the small pic of the frame number, the battery on my iphone was almost flat.

H1 Frame number 1 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

H1 engine number by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

H1 engine and frame number reference by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

[Trevor from Warragul]

Only 1 year of the H1 came with points, oddly not the first model, but midway through the model run [1972].

Not quite true. A fair few H1A's came from the factory with points...

[Terry in Australia]

Only 1 year of the H1 came with points, oddly not the first model, but midway through the model run [1972].

Not quite true. A fair few H1A's came from the factory with points...

I wonder why Trevor?

[simon#42]

Yes I remember Davey telling me how he was almost electrocuted on his 350 Avenger on a wet day, I don't remember the detail, apart from the ignition could give you a pretty good shock.

yes i took mine off and converted it to run points .  those old capacitor discharge ignitions were great in the day but 50 years on they can give up the ghost with no warning

[MauiK3]

I vaguely remember capacitor discharge ignitions, it seems with all the trouble we have with capacitors and quality it would be difficult to resurrect an old unit.
Nice development that you have the correct cases, this will be a fun bike.
Doesn't the newer two stroke oil smoke less?

[RAFster122s]

Synthetic 2-stroke oils can be pretty smokeless

[ekpent]

 I can remember going to some local flat track races in the 70's where there were a lot of Bultaco,s and other two strokes racing and can still remember the wonderful smell of what was possibly  castor oil filling the outdoor arena at the drop of the flag.

[jgger]

The really smokey bikes are the ones running the oil injection systems. I desert raced for 5 years in the heyday of 2 strokes, none of our bikes smoked badly on premix gas. I ran a pint of Bardahl VBA to 6 gallons of gas in the winter and dropped the mix down to 5 gallons of gas in the hot summer months. Still no smoke.