Author Topic: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question  (Read 792 times)

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Offline Rosinante

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Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« on: April 04, 2023, 10:42:54 AM »
Speak to me, oh wise ones, of the Zen of final drive chain adjustment.  The Holy Book says 0.5 - 1.0 inches of slack.  But....how much pressure is applied to the midpoint of the chain in order to measure slack.  Right now, I can fairly easily get the midpoint of the chain to deflect 0.5" .  With more pressure, I could surely achieve 0.75 or perhaps even 1.0" of deflection. 

The chain, right now, is taut.  That is...if I could shake the motorcycle up and down, the chain would not deflect.  If I held the end of a brand new pencil and placed the other end under the chain, I would be unable to get the chain to deflect at all.  Should I be able to get the chain to deflect at one end of a pencil by holding the other end?  Or is this chain properly adjusted right now....since I CAN get 0.5 - 1.0" of deflection.  By applying what probably amounts to a few pounds of pressure.
1978 CB750K

Offline Rosinante

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2023, 11:01:39 AM »
Okay......in looking at YouTube videos, those mechanics are applying very little pressure against the chain when measuring slack.  In other words, the chain is visibly curved, drooping, due to gravity, before they even touch it.  They then place a finger under the chain and lift gently to deflect the chain and measure the deflection.  The chain is NOT taut when adjusted properly.  It droops.  I just put a brand new chain and sprockets on my bike, and want to get the adjustment just right.
1978 CB750K

Offline Rosinante

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2023, 11:37:50 AM »
Wait!  The Holy Bible says to measure and adjust chain slack with the bike on the "main stand."  I think this is the side stand.  Right?
1978 CB750K

Online denward17

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2023, 12:29:44 PM »
I always adjust on the center stand, which to me would be the main stand.

I use enough pressure to get the chain to move without trying to force it.

Offline Phoenix

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2023, 12:38:14 PM »
My .02, someone about your weight sitting upright on the back should give 1/2".  If I remember, I set it once on the centerstand and went to Vintage Days and saw someone setting his.  Mine was WAY TOO TIGHT.  I reset it.
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Offline Rosinante

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2023, 01:36:12 PM »
....I set it once on the centerstand and (it was) was WAY TOO TIGHT.....

Comparing the geometry of the trailing arm and the center line of the sprockets, it looks to me like a chain will tighten when the bike is taken off the center stand.  In a few moments, I am going to loosen this chain to prevent stretching damage, then take the bike off the center stand and readjust.  With the rear wheel on the ground, I suspect the trailing arm will become more aligned with the center line of the sprockets.
1978 CB750K

Offline dave500

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2023, 01:53:18 PM »
run a new chain a little slacker,adjust it once its been used a little.

Offline ekpent

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2023, 02:07:30 PM »
I like to check my chain while I am sitting on it. Just the way I have always done it right or wrong.

Offline chiefum

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2023, 02:58:08 PM »
I like to check my chain while I am sitting on it. Just the way I have always done it right or wrong.

That's what I do too.

Offline Don R

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2023, 03:19:23 PM »
  X2 with my weight on it. I stopped coming home from the world tour because my F1's chain was slapping the guard. I put it on the center stand and my brother asked why did you do that? I always want to check it with weight on it.
  He's my bike guru, spent years working in Honda and Kawasaki shops. He owned a Benelli shop for a while but had a terrible time getting any bikes to sell.
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Offline Dunk

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2023, 04:43:19 PM »
I just adjusted mine to 3/4 on center stand after, I also always wonder how much pressure to put on the chain. When you rode it a bit it takes much less pressure to reach maximum deflection, with the Oring chain i use anyway. I'd imagine ideal is to remove the shocks and move the swingarm to max extension between sprockets and leave a tiny bit of slack at that point.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2023, 06:35:37 PM »
I just adjusted mine to 3/4" on center stand...

Me, too, but with this caveat: if the chain is brand new, ride it for no less than 50 miles (100 is better) before setting it to your desired looseness. The grease that was cooked into the chain's pins (when new) has centered the pins in their rollers, effectively shortening the chain. When the grease has distributed itself away from the pins, that small clearance in each link will add up to a bunch of slack.

When installing a brand-new chain, Honda always snugged up to the no-slack point, rode the bike on the test-track (usually 0.1 to 0.2 miles) and then crated it. When we took them from the crate, they always seemed overly taut (to me) on the chains. At first (my 1st year in a Honda shop) I adjusted for the 1/2"-3/4" slack shown in the Shop Manual for that bike, but at 300 miles when they came in for their first checkup the chains would then be REAL slack, needing tightening. After that I left them 'taut' and they came in at their first checkup much closer to the 1/2"-3/4" slack spec.
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Offline Rosinante

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2023, 06:39:42 AM »
Interesting.  Thanks to all.

Dunk wonders, too, how much pressure to put on the chain when measuring slack.  So.....I a glad I asked.  And now, after further investigation, the answer is "not much pressure."  Maybe a pound.  The chain should not be taut.  It should "flop" 0.5 - 1.0 inches.

I finally buttoned her up yesterday and went for a ride.  WAY WAY smoother.  Between the chain/sprockets and the new clutch cable, this bike is way more fun to ride.  The engine seems smoother too, though I did nothing but a compression check to it.  Isn't it funny how machines seem to get happier when we pay attention to them. 

Spring is coming.  And....Hondaman's book arrived yesterday.  Life is good!
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Offline Doobie

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2023, 09:05:09 AM »
I've always measured slack on all my bikes with them on the sidestand. However, I noticed the other day, there is less slack in the chain when my CB750 is on the centerstand and that makes me question whether I should use the centerstand measurement instead.
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Offline Rosinante

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2023, 10:31:59 AM »
Hm.  Thank you for that.  Further examination is needed.  It "looks" to me as though the chain slack should be greater when on center stand compared to side stand.  But I have not tested my theory.  Hondaman says 0.75 - 1.0 " of slack when on center stand, and this should be good enough for anyone, including me, though my bike is a K8.  Longer swing arm.  Not sure what difference that would make.
1978 CB750K

Offline ekpent

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2023, 10:54:22 AM »
Hm.  Thank you for that.  Further examination is needed.  It "looks" to me as though the chain slack should be greater when on center stand compared to side stand.  But I have not tested my theory.  Hondaman says 0.75 - 1.0 " of slack when on center stand, and this should be good enough for anyone, including me, though my bike is a K8.  Longer swing arm.  Not sure what difference that would make.
Do you still have that chunky 630 chain or have you converted to a 530 ?

Offline Rosinante

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2023, 11:12:21 AM »
I switched to the 530 chain this week.

Update:  The chain slack on this K8 seems to be about 1/4" greater when on the center stand compared to when the rear tire is on the ground.  Unsurprisingly, this corresponds to a 0.75 - 1.0" center stand slack (recommended by Hondaman) and a half-inch slack on the side stand.  This bike, right now, is at about the midpoint of Hondaman's suggestion and therefore just a bit more than 1/2" slack on the side stand.  Since the chain is new, and slack is even across the length of the chain, I consider this 'perfect.'  And, as I reported, the bike rides much smoother with far less noise.  The outgoing 630 chain and sprockets were dangerously worn.  A photo of the front sprocket teeth in a nearby thread illustrates this worn condition.
1978 CB750K

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2023, 12:12:59 PM »
  X2 with my weight on it. I stopped coming home from the world tour because my F1's chain was slapping the guard. I put it on the center stand and my brother asked why did you do that? I always want to check it with weight on it.
  He's my bike guru, spent years working in Honda and Kawasaki shops. He owned a Benelli shop for a while but had a terrible time getting any bikes to sell.

+3 or 30…😇

Benelli shop ? Was he busy? Constantly shearing the fly wheel key way comes to mind on my buddy’s childhood Benilli mini enduro..😩  Kept us Yamaha Mini Enduro gang busy finding baling wire to tow him back home…😇  it was a good bike though seem like the exhaust or brake cable was always causing problems too…
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Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2023, 12:41:13 PM »
I switched to the 530 chain this week.

Update:  The chain slack on this K8 seems to be about 1/4" greater when on the center stand compared to when the rear tire is on the ground.  Unsurprisingly, this corresponds to a 0.75 - 1.0" center stand slack (recommended by Hondaman) and a half-inch slack on the side stand.  This bike, right now, is at about the midpoint of Hondaman's suggestion and therefore just a bit more than 1/2" slack on the side stand.  Since the chain is new, and slack is even across the length of the chain, I consider this 'perfect.'  And, as I reported, the bike rides much smoother with far less noise.  The outgoing 630 chain and sprockets were dangerously worn.  A photo of the front sprocket teeth in a nearby thread illustrates this worn condition.

Congratulations on the 530..

All chains seem quiet after replacing a severely worn one.

One of the quietest chain and sprockets I’ve ever tried was a 530 RK Gold on a factory front 18 driving a nylon rear sprocket, super quiet.  The nylon sprocket was back in the early 80’s. Before grey hair 😩.  It worked well for non aggressive riding. Not so well for drag race starts. An 836 kit and a fat tire would send the nylon one back on warranty the first day. 😁
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Offline ekpent

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2023, 12:57:06 PM »
Don't forget for overkill they made a double row chain kit also. Breakin' chains was a big deal in the early bikes. Picture in this thread -  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=29164.0

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Basic Drive Chain Adjust Question
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2023, 06:17:05 PM »
Don't forget for overkill they made a double row chain kit also. Breakin' chains was a big deal in the early bikes. Picture in this thread -  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=29164.0
Omigosh, I remember those! They had REAL short life because they were hard to lube very well. Choppers often sported them in shows, though. I saw a few at the drags back when, but they were said to "lose ET" compared to a single chain.

Does anyone remember the short-lived Gates Toothed [rubber] Belt setup, with the special aluminum toothed sprockets and all? A friend of mine back then worked in the Gates R&D shop when it was here in Denver, making those belts and the 2-piece sprockets. They were prototyped on a Sportster 1000cc (1973, his own bike) and they built a radio transmitter that received the strain-gage readings wirelessly (this was a BIG deal technology in the late 1970s when they were R&D-ing these drive systems) from the 2 sprockets' built-in strain gages. It transmitted to a receiver on the Sporty, which relayed it to my friend's car where it was recorded on a strip-chart recorder, specially modified to work in his Chevy Blazer. The car followed the Sportster from Denver's factory to Dillon in the mountains, thru the Eisenhower Tunnel, then back again. A year later the improved belt and pulleys appeared for the CB750, 2 different H-D bikes and Kawasaki asked for it in their 400 Twin, which became the first production bike to get one. The CB750 shredded the belt, though, because it made too much power during the uphill climbs: the H-D had a pulsing power profile while the Honda simply leaned on the belt all the time. They made 3 sets for the 750 and never marketed it, as these had to be 2-piece countersprockets that bolted together in-place on the engine, very hard to install and also make round. This began the rubber-band drives that we see nowadays, copied by the Japanese in the 1990s when Gates Rubber bailed out of it. Gates never made $$ on it, sold it to Dayton, in Japan.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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