Author Topic: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - it made it!  (Read 14781 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2023, 06:21:23 PM »
Years ago, I rode down to a VJMC meet in Gettysburg. On a quiet afternoon we visited a SPRINT car Museum in the area. Amazing place, with literally 100’s of oval track cars. They had one of those Honda Powered Midgets on display. It took me a few seconds to even recognize what I was looking at! It had a the transmission hacked off, just as you described.

I've always thought those guys were pure genius, despite being "just farmers" from that area who had time on their hands during growing season and winter off-time. Some of them had fabulous machine shops at their houses (in the barns) and at least one also worked at the local automotive machine shop in town (he got my boring work in those days, had it right).

By chance, do you remember where the car you saw hailed from?
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2023, 06:45:11 PM »
Dang! 16K RPM...... that would be something to get out of these motors.
I thought the valves floated after 10.5K with the Action Fours cam and springs I had in my 76 811 back in the day. Maybe it was the points floating?

Action Fours had some fabulous parts, if their gaskets sucked. They were the go-to for the racing bikes we made back then. Their cams were notorious, though, for short life and 'bouncing' the intake valves from too-steep opening ramps, mostly because they thought that longer duration needed to also have wider valve openings. After the first 2 years they backed off the amount of lift (smart) but then their cams got soft for some reason (not so smart) and I haven't seen one in decades. If you had an early "Street/Strip" Action Fours cam, it opened the valve so suddenly that the 2 springs got into harmonic issues and bounced the rockers down the closing ramps of the cam above 9500-ish RPM. That is likely what you experienced: this disrupted the next intake cycle in the head by setting up pressure pulse moments back toward the carbs when the intake valves were jerking to different openings. The only thing I saw then that could fix this (it happened in roadracers, too) was those flat-wound spiral-like spring inserts that slipped in between the 2 valve springs, but they had to be run almost 500 miles before they smoothed out their mating surfaces, so they weren't popular on the tracks: heck, 500 miles was a race engine's lifetime on some of those tracks!

This was when Megacycle came out with their version of the [Daytona winning] Yoshimura "85 HP" cam that is now their 125-00. I've installed a bunch of those, all with great results. I don't think any of my builds make it up to 85 HP, though, because I don't normally use high-dome pistons like Yosh did, nor their fancy carbs. Or those beautiful megaphones....

By chance, did you also use the cast 811cc pistons? Those were most-excellent parts. Their forged ones, not so much: the thin rings could barely make a single racing season.

The 'newcomer' to those midget-car racers who got me entangled with them had a box-stock 750 engine he had made for his new car, and it had nothing more in it than a cam (he wouldn't say which one) and a 4-into-1 homemade (looked it) intake manifold with a Carter 2-bbl carb on it. He was running 12k RPM on the straights with just "...some shims under the valve springs..." and was heads-up with the little Offy-equipped cars on the shorter tracks. He would sit under a shade tarp and sip something cool between heats while the Offy guys were tuning, twisting, hunched over their hoods trying to beat each other. He never got better than 3rd place, but he sure had a good time at it.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Online newday777

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2023, 08:11:05 PM »
They were the Yoshi 811 high domes. They worked well with the 3 angle valve cuts and polished ports. I put @ 17,000 miles on them before bumping up to the 836.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2023, 08:32:20 PM »
Years ago, I rode down to a VJMC meet in Gettysburg. On a quiet afternoon we visited a SPRINT car Museum in the area. Amazing place, with literally 100’s of oval track cars. They had one of those Honda Powered Midgets on display. It took me a few seconds to even recognize what I was looking at! It had a the transmission hacked off, just as you described.

I've always thought those guys were pure genius, despite being "just farmers" from that area who had time on their hands during growing season and winter off-time. Some of them had fabulous machine shops at their houses (in the barns) and at least one also worked at the local automotive machine shop in town (he got my boring work in those days, had it right).

By chance, do you remember where the car you saw hailed from?

Sorry.....It was 6-7 years ago and I just remember 100’s of race cars, built by really clever people!

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2023, 09:10:57 PM »
Well, can't seem to post the pix tonight for some reason, but...got the cylinders and cases back from the machine shop today!
The divot in the gasket surface by the cam chain tensioner didn't clean up, so while the head goes to the welder for the fin repair :)  I'm going to have him build that back up so I can fix it. The kickstarter-side rear case boss is split open, too, so I'll have him weld that up, too.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 06:27:15 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2023, 09:15:52 PM »
The head fins...'before' pictures.
:(

The case boss...
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2023, 09:19:48 PM »
Divot and more fins...
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2023, 09:51:45 PM »
Will your aluminum welder build those fins back out ? Tig welding ? That's a 'skill'.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2023, 05:57:36 PM »
Will your aluminum welder build those fins back out ? Tig welding ? That's a 'skill'.
Yep, he's an artist! I'll post them when he's done.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2023, 07:34:31 PM »
Cases and head are still at the welder.
Today I cleaned the clutch cover, turned out to be no small task!
I thought it was just greasy, turned out to be crusty under the grit, instead. The lifter balls are toast, but the lifter ramps and lifter platen are OK. That's OK, I have some other ball plates.
Film at 11...

Update (2 AM): one of the lifter ramps on the center plate has deep pitting (that can be seen under GOOD lighting), will have to swap that out, too. Otherwise the clutch lever will feel like it is grating every time it is pulled in.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2023, 07:31:40 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2023, 10:07:45 PM »
Got 'em back!
Case boss and camchain tunnel repair...
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2023, 10:11:29 PM »
The head's fins are beautiful. :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Online newday777

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2023, 01:49:23 AM »
Dang Mark. That is art, the contrast from before and after is outta Siight!
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2023, 02:59:56 AM »
Let’s hope this artist is around a lot longer. He does beautiful work, true craftsmanship and well taught from whomever he apprenticed under as well as skills and techniques he developed on his own. Let’s hope he has an apprentice too!
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2023, 04:26:13 AM »
Very Nice Work on  those fins. Tough to find that skill and the desire to do it.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2023, 08:10:11 AM »
Looks Great  8)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline PeWe

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2023, 11:52:39 AM »
Beautiful!
Saving those parts is difficult to set a price on. For sure a good investment.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2023, 05:58:21 PM »
The welder is from Czech Republic (about 25 years ago), came here to have his own life and business. We was already a welder when he came, apprenticed for 2 years somewhere and opened this little shop he has now. He's ALWAYS busy, and for good reason! I nudge my 'place in line' with 9x19 food for his Hi Power, which was the other reason he came here. ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2023, 07:44:32 AM »
That is some wonderful welding!
This engine project is great, bring another one back.
Mr. Honda is smiling down.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline Gamma

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2023, 02:16:58 PM »
Really good welding job.👍

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #70 on: June 08, 2023, 07:27:24 PM »
OK, here we go!
CMS came thru with the tranny bearings (all 5 of them), as the dust & rust had made them all immovable. The bearings went thru 5 to 7 "Superceded to..." references, but they managed to track the right ones down, got them last Saturday. The old JIS grooving standards for the retainer rings changed in the 1990s when the whole world [attempted to] became "ISO" together, so everyone would use the same manufacturing drawings when making many things, like bearings. When that happened, all the DIN-standardized grooves moved more toward the middle of the bearings, so they no longer fit these bikes. :(

Next: paint the parts! Off to the garage to mask stuff...after I finish Helicoiling most of the other K2 head that's out there, in beaten-up condition.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2023, 08:23:59 PM »
Congratulations Mark! Glad CMS NL was able to come through for you. Get any candy with the order?

David
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #72 on: June 08, 2023, 08:55:36 PM »
Amazing progress, well done!

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2023, 05:08:02 PM »
Congratulations Mark! Glad CMS NL was able to come through for you. Get any candy with the order?

David

Candy! No! Hey, I was ripped off!
Well, maybe not: they sent a keychain with their little winking mascot guy as shown on their website.
At least, I don't THINK it's edible, maybe I'll try it tonight?
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sandcast Engine #1770 rebuild - I hope?
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2023, 08:01:30 PM »
Nope, wasn't edible...
Got the hole filled in where the water worked its way into the center bolt that held the cases captive at disassembly, picture below. It was apparently sitting right-side up with the starter cover off, tilted so that water collected in that area of the starter's cubbyhole, and slowly etched away the aluminum until it made a hole into the long, thin bolt's boss. JB Weld to the rescue, there.

It just started raining (again) so I didn't get to paint the head today. Maybe tomorrow?
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com