Author Topic: CB550 Starter Rebuild?  (Read 481 times)

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Offline TPIGroove

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CB550 Starter Rebuild?
« on: April 22, 2023, 12:04:15 PM »
Hi everyone. Have a 1974 CB550, fixed her up and have been riding her around without too many issues. Went for a ride today (nice and chilly, so I got to try out my riding long johns), and after stopping for gas before heading home, the starter decided to quit on me. Kickstarted just fine (it's saved me more than I'd like to admit) and the battery's good. I don't believe it's the solenoid, I replaced that a year ago, and the started motor was trying to run. As it is, pressing the button the starter got power and made a brief attempts to move, but simply couldn't spin the crank. I'll do a few more tests to confirm, but if it's the motor for sure would it be better to find a replacement or a rebuild kit?

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB550 Starter Rebuild?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2023, 12:24:24 PM »
Hi everyone. Have a 1974 CB550, fixed her up and have been riding her around without too many issues. Went for a ride today (nice and chilly, so I got to try out my riding long johns), and after stopping for gas before heading home, the starter decided to quit on me. Kickstarted just fine (it's saved me more than I'd like to admit) and the battery's good. I don't believe it's the solenoid, I replaced that a year ago, and the started motor was trying to run. As it is, pressing the button the starter got power and made a brief attempts to move, but simply couldn't spin the crank. I'll do a few more tests to confirm, but if it's the motor for sure would it be better to find a replacement or a rebuild kit?

It's very rare for these starters to fail: in fact, I have seen just one in the 50 years I've been working on them.

Much more likely on the 550: the battery is low on power. This can come from many things, like having Dyna Ignition aboard, or a halogen headlight of more than 40 watts' power, or just a poor-quality battery, like Champion or Bikemaster. The 500/550 has a small alternator output, and if electrical items are not kept to a minimum and/or the bike is not kept well revved (4k minimum RPM while cruising, and 5K+ is a good idea), or if the bike is left idling for long periods of time with the lights on (many of them can't be turned off, thanks to the US DOT) then the battery runs down. Then it acts just as you're describing.

So...I'd suggest putting it on a trickle charger (not more than 6 amps charge power for these small batteries) for at least 10-12 hours, then try again. If the starter works then, you'll know it's not one of the things causing you the grief.

It is VERY common for someone to sell the CB500/550 bike to someone else because they got tired of the electrical issues and didn't know what to do about them: you will find it many times in the posts here. :(

There are 'fixes' available, though. If it has the Dyna electronic ignition aboard, this is the #1 cause of this very issue when the 500/550 bikes are used for in-town riding at in-town speeds. You can substitute LED headlight and taillight to try to help, then learn to keep the engine wound up more than you may like, or just change out the Dyna ignition for something less power-hungry. If you don't wish to use points (because right now we are having BIG problems with the condensors that go with them, worldwide) you can try the Tytronics electronic unit, but it is Chinese-made. If you go to points again, you can also install my Transistor Ignition to make those last [essentially] forever (or until you decide to quit riding altogether), but this will take some mechanic work, likely in replacing the existing spark advancer with one that still has a points cam on it (this was removed and discarded if you have Dyna Ignition now).

In any case, hang in there, we can talk you thru it. There's lot of others here who have already gone thru the 'low battery' issue with that bike and came out with a reliable ride.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2023, 12:26:48 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline TPIGroove

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Re: CB550 Starter Rebuild?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2023, 12:32:46 PM »
I'll double check the battery, I was going through some downtown traffic for a bit, although the problem persisted once I got to the highway and got it at a good cruising RPM that would have hopefully charged it. No light issues that I noticed (the turn signal and beeper didn't have any struggling that I noticed). I do have a halogen installed, but I also have your transistorized ignition system on there instead of an electronic unit. The solenoid was a universal from 4into1, and I've had bad parts from them before. Is it possible a bad one could still try to crank the motor?

EDIT: I forgot, I also installed one of those combo regulator/rectifier units.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2023, 12:41:59 PM by TPIGroove »

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB550 Starter Rebuild?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2023, 12:54:19 PM »
Do you know the wattage of the halogen headlight? They are often 80 watts if just advertised as "halogen headlight", which is more than the 550 can manage.
The solenoid: the OEM one (if you still have it) can be refurbished in most cases (until the1977 version of the 550, I can't get those apart without breaking something, it seems :(  ). I've had bad parts from 4into1, too, when they are their 'generic' ones. Come to think of it, I've had bad ones from them when they were 'direct replacement' parts, too.

What happens with these solenoids just comes from non-use. The contact crossbar gets a little pitted from use, and then it can oxidize easily. Once that happens it burns where the oxidation happened: this can be filed smooth and copper-y again (and the stud bottoms polished in the cap) and they are good as new. Some can allow the contact bar to just be flipped over, putting the unused bottom side to work instead. It is the burnt oxidized sites that makes them lose lots of power while running the starter.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline TPIGroove

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Re: CB550 Starter Rebuild?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2023, 01:34:28 PM »
Silly me, it might be the battery. She's a bit low it seems, so I'll let her sit on the trickle and get her tested at a parts store for good measure. I've done more in-town stuff this week, so even taking longer routes with less stops I'm still not going too fast and keeping her between 3500 and 4500 for my cruise. When I first got the bike I was totally taken back because I cruised it below 3k (operating on the logic of keeping fuel economy good) and killed the battery. I tested the voltage and saw it was good above 3k RPM, so I figured as long as I keep it above that the battery shouldn't have any issues.

As for the headlight it came with a 60/55 watt bulb, but I believe I switched it out for a 35/35 watt bulb to help the charging system. After I make sure the battery hasn't gone kaput (it's a diehard from advance auto parts), I'll probably look at some kind of aftermarket battery gauge I can put on the cluster. I was worried it was the starter since I haven't had an issue with the charging since, and I accidentally tried to start it in gear earlier (the original safety switch was destroyed and I simply bypassed it, oops).

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB550 Starter Rebuild?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2023, 08:01:32 PM »
I have bypassed [more than] a few of those 'safety' devices for the starter myself, especially when they didn't work so well to start with (the 750 is worse).

Long ago the Diehard was a stellar battery when it was made by Enersys for Sears. I don't know who is making them today, since Sears is goners. The way to check the battery's stability (and total charge level) is to watch the voltage when the starter is engaged, using a voltmeter. If it drops below 10.5 volts or so, the battery isn't quite up to snuff. A fully-charged new one will drop to about 10.8 volts in the 550 (or 11.0 volts in the 750) when pushing the starter, briefly. After about 3 seconds of cranking it will drop quite a bit lower.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline TPIGroove

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Re: CB550 Starter Rebuild?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2023, 05:32:49 PM »
Busy sunday and monday...

It's definitely the battery not having enough charge, starter works fine now. I don't think the electrical system is compromised since I went through it pretty thoroughly when I had to rebuild a quarter of the harness, but I'll check the voltage to the battery when I run her (hopefully tomorrow). I'm gonna go ahead and get an LED bulb kit, common motor seems to have one with the diodes. I also plan on getting a voltage meter I can slap on the bike, does anyone know of a decent one that isn't too expensive? The motorcycle shops (cycle gear and the online places that share their inventory) sell a very nice looking one that's a bar of LEDs in a row for voltage, but despite having a good aesthetic it's just a bit too pricey at $60 for something so simple.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB550 Starter Rebuild?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2023, 07:01:27 PM »
...but despite having a good aesthetic it's just a bit too pricey at $60 for something so simple.

More than that: most of those can't be seen in daylight! :(
While my 'version' of this is just from experience, I can tell about what the voltage is (low, or adequate, or even high - but that is rare) by looking at the headlight's brightness. If it seems 'yellow' it is low for sure, trending toward 'blue' when it gets above about 12.8 volts for a halogen or Stanley bulb. When the charge gets low, the headlight dims noticeably when the brakelight is activated. too, and turning on the turn signals can light them up, but they won't flash when it gets below 10.9 volts at the Black wire (or when the fuseblock's fuse clips are bad).
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline grcamna2

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Re: CB550 Starter Rebuild?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2023, 08:03:00 PM »
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Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: CB550 Starter Rebuild?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2023, 09:27:17 PM »
Bar graph LED Voltmeters or other Voltmeters can be had cheaply on Ebay from China. Many won't be waterproof, but some are...
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline TPIGroove

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Re: CB550 Starter Rebuild?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2023, 07:28:51 PM »
Confirmed it was the battery. Checked voltage beforehand at 12.7, then after a ride where I kept the bike around 4500 for cruising the battery was at 12.8. At least she's charging good, it's all on me for not keeping her revved up while doing town stuff. As far as voltmeters go, are analog ones acceptable? I can use the chinesium push comes to shove, but I've considered goldwing gauges, a few honda marine gauges that I saw on some boat sites, and there's also a tractor supply co. near me that has one I could grab.

Also, if I get a simple two-wire meter, all I'd need to do is hook up to the red and black on the ignition switch? Just clarifying I'm reading the schematic right, since battery power goes through a fuse before hitting the ignition switch on in red, then with the key turned it closes red and black together, with black being a distribution through a solid chunk of the bike.