Topic: fuse holder check

[Don R]

  For anyone using an aftermarket blade fuse holder, give it a look. The holder I have used on my early 750's, I also used in my gl1000 to replace the main fuse (after a dog bone fuse failure). It was extremely corroded and lost connectivity in a busy intersection. 
  I did ride in the rain a couple years ago but honestly didn't feel a need to inspect it, this bike leads a cushy life rarely ever getting wet. I had to literally cut it apart to get a new blade fuse plugged in so I could limp to the parts store.

  Just an FYI, in my haste to get out of traffic, I injured old self so take care.

[PeWe]

I hope you are OK now or at least, getting better.

Good idea to check all connections every year or second depending on water intrusion when riding or washing.

I moved my voltmeter  connection to read the more important coil voltage and found almost 1V missing.
(The permanent installed voltmeter between gauges)

Surprise for me, good for the bike and my future adventures avoiding a stop.

It was my additional connections inside left side cover that had corroded.

For each connection I sprayed with connection spray and plugged in-out a few times, voltage soon back.
Mostly auto bullet connections to/from relay. Maybe hanging mini fuse involved too, its connecting wires with bullet plugs yes.

Another thing is to avoid spraying inside side covers when washing the bike.

I had a strange battery total flat on my K2 last year.
Relay for ignition sat in a bad place and got water inside when washing bike.
Shorted enough to drain the almost new battery. 10A fuse did not react.
I measured a short and followed it to the relay. Replaced it and placed it better away from water splash. It got better cover too.

I was lucky to get that stop at home, not long way from home that should cost money.

[BenelliSEI]

Don..... Hope you are OK! Mine was the + battery cable, right where it cinched down to the stud on the solenoid. It looked perfect, but using a test light it was live all the way to the fitting, stud showed no power. The end terminal was perfectly crimped and looked clean...... Inside, the end of the copper had turned into white dust and finally given up.

[MauiK3]

I hate it when that happens.

[PeWe]

That +cable sit protected.  That might happen due to how it was soldered?
Maybe chemicals used when soldered.
One thing more to check.

[BenelliSEI]

That +cable sit protected.  That might happen due to how it was soldered?
Maybe chemicals used when soldered.
One thing more to check.

PeWe..... you are correct. It was one i repaired  and didn’t shrink wrap properly.

[PeWe]

OK, I think I saw another photo on this forum rather recently where the soldered connector was really bad. Either battery or ground cable or to starter.

Small things that can be verified wintertime to avoid a stop far from home.

Good to get heads up here.

[Don R]

 Thanks, I'll be fine, just a couple months on light duty, doc says to lift nothing heavier than my coffee cup. He had to do an old-fashioned hernia repair with no mesh since the gall bladder was infected.
 This is about the time of year I post about doing a nut and bolt check also. 
 

[The Lone Builder]

Get well soon ;  both of you.

[HondaMan]

Yeow!
Don, I send my sympathies! I got a hernia (first ever) installing a 750K6 engine in 2010.
I also had those aftermarket 'blade' fuse holders (singles) fail on me. They would get real hot because they made poor contact with the blade fuse, just touching along one edge of each blade. This melted the fuse, in freeway traffic at 70 MPH. (!)

That's what got me to making the fuseholders I do now.

On the flip side: I then replaced the fuseholder by just plugging in the blade-style fuse to the OEM terminals in the harness (nice tight fit) and cut the rubber jacket off the aftermarket holder, then wrapped it around the fuse.

Once corrosion gets started on the contacts, it grows quickly. If you can find it, a spray-on product called LPS-1 is out there (in 1 ounce, 4 ounce and 8 ounce spray cans) that will absolutely stop the corrosion, even if it gets wet. Don't use LPS-2, 2.5, or 3 as those are different products for other purposes (like a WD-40 or such), just the LPS-1 is the 'magic' stuff, developed for the Navy to stop corrosion - and it absolutely does. A drop does it!

[pjlogue]

When I did my restoration on my '76 750, upon disassembly, I saw how corroded all electrical connections were.  When I did the reassembly on the new harness I cleaned all electrical blade and bullet connectors (yes, even though they were new) and used Dow Corning high vacuum grease on all electrical connections.

Even though a bike never sees rain the connectors will oxidize.  Humidity in the air will accelerate the rate of oxidation.  I check all connectors yearly.  It has been ~7 rears since the restoration and with the vacuum grease all the connectors look as clean as the day I put them together. 

-P.

[TwoTired]

When I did my restoration on my '76 750, upon disassembly, I saw how corroded all electrical connections were.  When I did the reassembly on the new harness I cleaned all electrical blade and bullet connectors (yes, even though they were new) and used Dow Corning high vacuum grease on all electrical connections.

Even though a bike never sees rain the connectors will oxidize.  Humidity in the air will accelerate the rate of oxidation.  I check all connectors yearly.  It has been ~7 rears since the restoration and with the vacuum grease all the connectors look as clean as the day I put them together. 

-P.

Plus one.

In the electronics industry, we learned to use gold plated connectors to stop contact degradation.  Well, Honda did not go that expensive route, and the metals used oxidize with time and exposure to the atmosphere.  The Dow high vacuum grease is a pretty good substitute for gold plating, as it stays put as a barrier unless physically pushed off the contact surface, as does gold plate.  So, keep pressure washers away from treated connections.  Beware of products that “contain” silicone rather than actually being comprised of silicone.  Any petroleum in the compound will creep out and away over time corrupting plastic in its path. Silicone is inert.  For cleaning I use Deoxit, or a plastic safe contact cleaner I got from an electronic supply store, which is also plastic safe.  Then a coating of Dow High Vacuum grease before assembly.  If the connectors have lost grip tension, bend to restore, so that it will plow off the silicone in the area of contact during assembly.  In some ways it is better than gold plating, as you can treat the wire going into the crimp to stop oxidation there as well.

[Don R]

 It's funny, the last loaded test ride before leaving for Sturgis was when the stock dog bone fuse let go, I jumpered it and headed directly to the parts store. I remember thinking well, I dodged the bullet on that one. L0L!

[HondaMan]

When I did my restoration on my '76 750, upon disassembly, I saw how corroded all electrical connections were.  When I did the reassembly on the new harness I cleaned all electrical blade and bullet connectors (yes, even though they were new) and used Dow Corning high vacuum grease on all electrical connections.

Even though a bike never sees rain the connectors will oxidize.  Humidity in the air will accelerate the rate of oxidation.  I check all connectors yearly.  It has been ~7 rears since the restoration and with the vacuum grease all the connectors look as clean as the day I put them together. 

-P.

Plus one.

In the electronics industry, we learned to use gold plated connectors to stop contact degradation.  Well, Honda did not go that expensive route, and the metals used oxidize with time and exposure to the atmosphere.  The Dow high vacuum grease is a pretty good substitute for gold plating, as it stays put as a barrier unless physically pushed off the contact surface, as does gold plate.  So, keep pressure washers away from treated connections.  Beware of products that “contain” silicone rather than actually being comprised of silicone.  Any petroleum in the compound will creep out and away over time corrupting plastic in its path. Silicone is inert.  For cleaning I use Deoxit, or a plastic safe contact cleaner I got from an electronic supply store, which is also plastic safe.  Then a coating of Dow High Vacuum grease before assembly.  If the connectors have lost grip tension, bend to restore, so that it will plow off the silicone in the area of contact during assembly.  In some ways it is better than gold plating, as you can treat the wire going into the crimp to stop oxidation there as well.

I'd like to add to this another product that I've used for over 30 years, called LPS-1. It is different from their lubricants (LPS-2, LPS-2.5, LPS-3, etc.) in that it was developed in Georgia for the Navy, to stop corrosion on ship-board electronic system connections. It is a spray, and if you look hard enough you can find a "purse-sized" 1 ounce can of it (instead of their 8-ounce can), which will do about 150 Hondas' electrical plugs. I have an 8-ounce can (since 1981) that is still 80% full.

This stuff is described as "...hates itself, loves metals of all types..." so when the connectors are plugged together the oil (using that term loosely, as it is a polarized polymer liquid, not a lube) pushes itself away from itself while gripping the exposed metal, allowing/restoring 100% of the metal-to-metal contact while still protecting all the rest of the surface(s). I found it in the oilfield (1980s) and it fixed 100% of their truck's electrical connector troubles (which were MANY) due to moisture in the electrics, and I used to distribute it to model train buffs to treat their train tracks where they used servo-control units to independently control multiple locomotives on a common track as it provided complete corrosion protection, but also full electrical contact. It never dries out, is covalent-free so it doesn't attract dust, and doesn't adhere to plastic very well at all.

The secret to how it works is: the molecules push away from one another from their (+) polarity while this same intrinsic charge makes it attracted to conductive (metal) surfaces as metals always have a slight (-) charge due to Earth's magnetic lines of flux passing thru them. When electrons (negative charge) pass thru the metals on which LPS-1 resides it pulls itself onto the metal, ensuring it will attach through sprays or even submerged connections.

[Tim2005]

Don, what style is this fuse holder? Any pics? I've run a 3 fuse one in my 400 for years with no issues (so far...), though on another bike I've a single blade one that seems impossible to close up tightly when there's a fuse in it

[TwoTired]

Some analysis of LPS-1:

The SDS notes the active ingredient is a petroleum based product.  It also states it is for temporary protection from oxidation. I note no boundaries mentioned on what temporary means in the real time domain. Hmmm.

Aircraft spruce sells this product for use in aircraft electrical parts/connections.  All of which have annual inspection routines to keep everything working reliably.

Given its temporary protection note, I would expect that if you want to routinely renew it, it will serve nicely for as long as you like.  But, over time it will vanish and allow oxidation to advance, … eventually.  (Another unspecified time duration, ha!)

I have found Dow high vacuum grease (HVG) to remain unchanged in placement or quantity, still repel water, and block air contamination to the applied surface after application 40 years ago when I first discovered its existence and applied it.  If there is a time limit for effectiveness, I don’t think I will live to note it.

The Dow HVG is not a cleaner.  Which is why I use Deoxit5 or a very old (40 years) spray can of Kleen-It electrical contact cleaner and lube (contains silicone!) before the Dow HVG coating for multi-decade protection.

The method is to remove the oxidation and then apply the long term coating that does not sluff off with a film that prevents it from staying in place, as might happen when an oil film blocks contact with the parent surface.  I don’t know for certain that LPS-1 would do that.  But, it is a concern I feel needs testing.  I’ll probably buy some next time I’m in town for a future experiment.  I’m just not confident it is a proven 40 year or more solution to a connector oxidation preventer.  “Oil not liking itself” just doesn’t have a ring of truth to me.  But, I am just an amateur chemist.  So, take all this as a discussion point.  You decide what is best for you.  No offense to Mark intended.

[Don R]

Don, what style is this fuse holder? Any pics? I've run a 3 fuse one in my 400 for years with no issues (so far...), though on another bike I've a single blade one that seems impossible to close up tightly when there's a fuse in it

It's the type that is a single blade fuse inline in the wire, I destroyed it getting the burned fuse out and a new fuse into it, it was corroded and melted. If not for a helpful old former Goldwing rider that stopped with a lawn business truck and tools, I would have had to twist the wire and run fuse free to the part store.

[HondaMan]

  No offense to Mark intended.

None taken TT!
I've used the Dow grease before, too, in the oilfield trucks' electrics. The mechanics noted (complained, actually) that the 1980s version of the Dow stuff could be washed off in their high-pressure wash bays (for the big trucks) if someone forgot to close the electrical box(es) and got too close with the sprayers, which happened too frequently. It was one of these incidents that accidentally showed the LPS-1 didn't seem to wash off, nor even care if it was wet. I had gone down to Odessa to work on a Blender truck with an operator cab on the upper platform that was always having electrical issues and brought the LPS-1 just because it was in my toolbox. After replacing a number of connectors that were crusty, I sprayed them because I didn't have the Dow grease (or another similar one they used sometimes) on hand. About 4 months later the district manager called me to ask "Just what the HELL did you do to the blender [control] panel?" (typical all-Texan guy). Thinking the worst, I asked him 'why', and he said that it hadn't failed once since I had been there, so he was calling to have me come back down to "train his techs" on how to waterproof other panels. That was how it started, for me. As the trucks across the Rockies all started getting sprayed, the electrical troubles became fewer and fewer: a year later I got promoted to Supervisor of the Electrical Engineering Group because the Field Group reported "...he can fix electrical things for good". 

Talk about falling into it... 

[C317414]

If you ever need high quality fuse blocks, I recommend that you consider the ones made by Blue Sea Systems.  They are very high quality, designed for a marine environment.  I've used their 4-circuit block in a few motorcycle projects in the past.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/16/61/Fuse_Blocks/ST_Blade

[dave500]

the 500s had a single inline glass tube fuse in a metal case,i simplified mine.

[bryanj]

Sorry Dave was a plastic case not metal but was a glass fuse of an odd length

[dave500]

ok,ive had metal ones on a couple,maybe swapped out if they had melted or something?

[Don R]

 There is a good chance I used di-electric grease on that fuse and rubber holder, maybe something reacted between those materials.  It's odd that the rest of the bike is from 1978 and the only thing that corroded was that several year old fuse holder. I did notice Advance sells a different brand now.
  I'm still a few weeks from getting off light duty, due to infection caused by my gall bladder being deceased before the rest of me, the Surgeon repaired the hernia without mesh. The old-fashioned way. I think he was just showing off.
  If I can ride a lawn mower, I figure I can ride a 750, right? Just no center stand.

[HondaMan]

  Just no center stand.

Yeah, my next invention might be a 'stander' for these 750s. Long ago (when the Earth was still cooling) we had someone who made extensions that mounted to the centerstands of these bikes (which hinted that I wasn't the only one who thought they were heavy?) that really helped to get them up. The one drawback they had (which prevented me from getting one at the time) was that it barked the passenger right in the shin when it was folded up and riding, because it was just heavy enough that larger road bumps made it bounce a little. And, it was right next to her shin. More than one rider I knew had comments (complaints?) about that "feature".

[newday777]

  Just no center stand.

Yeah, my next invention might be a 'stander' for these 750s. Long ago (when the Earth was still cooling) we had someone who made extensions that mounted to the centerstands of these bikes (which hinted that I wasn't the only one who thought they were heavy?) that really helped to get them up. The one drawback they had (which prevented me from getting one at the time) was that it barked the passenger right in the shin when it was folded up and riding, because it was just heavy enough that larger road bumps made it bounce a little. And, it was right next to her shin. More than one rider I knew had comments (complaints?) about that "feature".

Did the comment include a whop on your head?