Topic: Lets Talk Welding

[britman]

As a couple of you know I have a project on the lift where the frame rails have been cut.  I have a kit to install that will require welding the bungs into place.  In all of my years piddling around in a garage I have never owned a welder, I did play around with an old stick set up a couple of times many many moons ago.  Of course I have gone to all out authority next to good Lord himself, YouTube and spent sometime looking at various video's for beginners.  I am leaning toward a Flux wire feed welder, basic model with no gas and 110 volt, from Harbor Freight.  Surpassingly the reviews on the machine are pretty damn good and I believe it would do anything I would need for an occasional fix around the workshop.  The cost would only probably be slightly more that loading the bike up and taking it to shop to have it done and I would enjoy the process of trying to lay a decent bead. Any suggestions from you folks out there who have experience in the field and really know what you are doing........

[Gurp]

I'm assuming you're talking about the small titanium inverter flux machine from harbor freight. From what I hear those are really good little units for what they are. The cheaper flux core welder that's black from harbor freight is about garbage. But if you plan on continuing welding later on you might look into getting a used machine that can accept gas so you can upgrade to running regular mig at a later time.

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[Stev-o]

Britman - I self-taught myself to weld before youtube, did it the old fashion way - read a book! I've been known to lay down a nice bead at times but I was using a high quality Millermatic with gas.  Prep is key [bare metal] and sufficient power is needed for the thickness of the metal being welded.  It's really not difficult but be sure to buy good safety equip - helmet, gloves and a jacket, your motorcycle gear wont work...ha. 
And practice on other metal before welding on your bike.

[BenelliSEI]

Counter point:

I do emergency repairs on  trailers and farm equipment with an ancient Lincoln stick welder. For anything that needs to look right, I shape, fettle and prep, then take it up the road to my neighbour “Fred”. He spent all his life as a welder in a metal fabricating shop and his welds look like they came from a toothpaste tube. Nothing he welds ever breaks again. He has the equipment and skill to weld anything! My work is too ugly to compare……. I clean and repair carbs and other bits for him, he is my favourite welding equipment.

[calj737]

Don’t use flux core on a motorcycle frame. Period. Flux core is intended as a structural process for carbon steel. It burns really hot and you can’t find the thinner gauge wire you should be using for frame repairs in flux core.

Many people self-learn with a MIG because it’s easier to put down a bead. The problem is looks are deceiving. If the welds are critical, then get someone with experience and skills to weld them and get them to teach you. You can learn to weld, but having someone knowledgeable looking over your shoulder pays huge dividends.

Flux core and stick are great “field” processes where gas-based isn’t practical due to conditions (wind primarily).

[HondaMan]

I just take mine to Ivo. He's a magician!

[Tracksnblades1]

Watch some TIG (tungsten Inert Gas) welding videos.

It’s an inside or no wind process. I’ve seen some very good first time beads. Usually to hot..

If you want it perfect. Take it to someone that does it everyday.  8-12 hours for the last 20 years.
They will have encountered it all and makes it look easy…

[Don R]

 I've seen some lovely mig welds fail and ugly ones hold. I tig welded my frame adapters.
 I'm not a natural but I made a living welding pipe from time to time. It's difficult making the rotation around a small tube. It's almost easier to weld 8" than it is to weld 3/4"

[dave500]

if your gonna use stick buy a DC inverter unit!youll find it easier and way smoother than AC "buzzbox",quality rods are a must aswell in the correct diameter for your job,i like kobelco rods,youll want a 6013 code rod in any brand @1mm if you can get them,itll penentrate fine on thin metal,youll need to practise for a while though before you hit thin tube,thick stuff is easy with stick,thin youll blow holes instantly with with too high amps,mig is more exxy to buy but so much easier to learn and use,the gasless types can be a #$%* to use,ive never used one,gas mig is point and instant hot glue gun once youve got settings correct,the big thing is get a decent auto darkening helmet!!

[simon#42]

Don’t use flux core on a motorcycle frame. Period. Flux core is intended as a structural process for carbon steel. It burns really hot and you can’t find the thinner gauge wire you should be using for frame repairs in flux core.

Many people self-learn with a MIG because it’s easier to put down a bead. The problem is looks are deceiving. If the welds are critical, then get someone with experience and skills to weld them and get them to teach you. You can learn to weld, but having someone knowledgeable looking over your shoulder pays huge dividends.

Flux core and stick are great “field” processes where gas-based isn’t practical due to conditions (wind primarily).

yes and im not a great fan of mig welding on bikes either . its great on longer runs but getting around tubes is a pain as you never have enough room .  spend a bit more and get a tig you will not regret it .

[dave500]

how were these frames welded in the factory?id sooner do a mig repair than a stick or tig on tube?ive never used tig,and im no welder,welding down hand is easy,doing tube in situ involves overhead,downhand and uphand vertical,for just one repair id just get it done somewhere?you got a lot of practise and cash outlay for a welding machine you might not use much again?

[newday777]

brittman
I hope you have gleaned from the replies that welding around a pipe takes experience to do it right, that the 3/4" pipe will be extremely difficult for inexperienced, and that it needs to be done with a tig welder.
You should do as you mentioned, load it up and take it to someone who has the experience and has a tig welder to do this critical job right. You don't want to have it come apart as you go barreling through the twisties and starts to flexing on you or anyone else.

[calj737]

how were these frames welded in the factory?id sooner do a mig repair than a stick or tig on tube?ive never used tig,and im no welder,welding down hand is easy,doing tube in situ involves overhead,downhand and uphand vertical,for just one repair id just get it done somewhere?you got a lot of practise and cash outlay for a welding machine you might not use much again?

They were MIG welded, Dave. But the distinction about MIG under production is that there is a detailed and documented WPS (Welding Procedure Spec) that declares all the specific settings. And welding around a small tube takes experience to make a single continuous bead.

Yu don’t want to Stick weld a motorcycle frame. It can be done, but it’s not the correct process because you can’t control the heat during the weld. TIG is best by far. But TIG as an all around process has its own limitations. Material must be super clean, no windy conditions else the shielding gas can be blown away, and you should know the base metal to match your filler rod (these bikes are easily welded with ER70S2 or S6.

With TIG, you can weld in any position unlike Stick. To do so with Stick, you need specific rods and 60- rods aren’t great at final appearance. They’re a very good utility rod around the farm or for structural needs, but not for “detail” work.

[simon#42]

maybe because im old and stuck in my ways the first piece of welding kit i grab is the oxy acetylene . many a good frame made without all the modern stuff . i would not be without a good tig mind .

[britman]

Thank you one and all.  I gleamed a ton from the replies and even had an offer of from a member to come weld the frame and give a lesson.  I will decide which avenue to go down when it comes time to install the kit.  This is undoubtably the most helpful and friendly site I have ever been a part up,  Much appreciated.......... 

[calj737]

maybe because im old and stuck in my ways the first piece of welding kit i grab is the oxy acetylene . many a good frame made without all the modern stuff . i would not be without a good tig mind .

Indeed oxy welded frames are something to behold. Not much for production due to the time involved, but truly works of art. And if I were to ever order a custom frame, it would be brazed up not welded.

[britman]

Took out the check book.  Local company, not cheap, but did a very decent job.  Don't think I could get beads that pretty. glad I went to someone who knows what they are doing....

[calj737]

Professionally done for sure. Have you checked to make sure the kit can be removed? It’s not uncommon to install the kit and lugs, then tack the lugs, weld them in and then the next thing you know, the heat from welding has pulled the frame just enough to prevent the kit from being removed (not specific to these kits, it’s any structure that gets welded in a fitment).

I helped a friend who bought a weld-up bumper kit for his truck. He didn’t know enough to shim the mounting brackets, welded up a bunch of the bumper, then couldn’t pull it free from the truck mounts to finish it up. After some oxy heating, a few broad pry bars, we got it off. I had to cut some pieces loose, shim it up, then weld it back out for him. Fit perfectly thereafter. Experience over initiative…

[BomberMann650]

Taking the tig welding class at community college was one of the better decisions i've made in my lifetime.

Especially as an elective course, the instructor let me do whatever I wanted once i proved i could do the basics.
Wasn't long he came up to me like "you're really concentrating on motorsports welding arent ya?"
As i was welding up holes in cast aluminum
😁😁

[scottly]

Took out the check book.  Local company, not cheap, but did a very decent job.  Don't think I could get beads that pretty. glad I went to someone who knows what they are doing....

Please share what it cost you for the welding.

[simon#42]

looks good . to be honest paying someone who knows exactly what they are doing for such an important structural weld is money well spent .

[britman]

Yes the frame tubes are removable but bolt back up quite securely.  I am finishing up painting the frame this weekend and hopefully getting the front end back together enough to make it a roller.    The cost of the welding was right at 200 bucks, which I was more than happy to pay.  I will throw up a couple more shots in the project section in the next couple of days.  Again thanks one and all for the advice.....