Topic: Fresh Rebuild - What to do and double check before cranking for the first time?

[Ellz10]

So over the next couple weeks I'll be creating my build thread on here to highlight my total restoration build of over 2.5 years.

In the meantime I wanted to jump on here and get a fresh perspective on all the things I should do, look for, and double check before hitting that start button for the first time.

A few things I already know of such as big shop fans blowing on the motor, but what are some others you guys can think of?

Many thanks!!!

[dave500]

make sure its got at least half a tank of fuel.

[Ellz10]

make sure its got at least half a tank of fuel.

I'll probably just fill it up with 104 or 107.

[RAFster122s]

Doesn’t need high octane fuel, in fact that can cause issues.
Need to see if you can get some oil pressure before starting the first time.

Using a car battery to help supplement your bike battery will allow you to crank without voltage dropping too much. Just jumper cable the battery to the bike battery…just like jump starting a bike, never with a running vehicle.

Make sure your battery is fully charged…even if new.

[Ellz10]

Doesn’t need high octane fuel, in fact that can cause issues.
Need to see if you can get some oil pressure before starting the first time.

Using a car battery to help supplement your bike battery will allow you to crank without voltage dropping too much. Just jumper cable the battery to the bike battery…just like jump starting a bike, never with a running vehicle.

Make sure your battery is fully charged…even if new.

Good advice I'll have to go get a car battery or maybe just use the one out of my car.

[denward17]

I would bench test the carbs if still off the bike, using the clear tube test to check float levels.

Assuming you rebuilt carbs of course, this will save you some headaches if they leak on the bike.

I would also try to bench sync the carbs just to get it running as good as possible before first start, it is not as close as vacuum sync, but will do to get it started.

If you lost oil pump prime, make sure you oil the top end very well, and wouldn't hurt to pour some oil in the oil galley above the points plate.

And kick until you can't kick start anymore, and then kick some more.  Wouldn't hurt to have a temporary oil pressure gauge on the same oil galley to double check oil pressure.

[Ellz10]

I would bench test the carbs if still off the bike, using the clear tube test to check float levels.

Assuming you rebuilt carbs of course, this will save you some headaches if they leak on the bike.

I would also try to bench sync the carbs just to get it running as good as possible before first start, it is not as close as vacuum sync, but will do to get it started.

If you lost oil pump prime, make sure you oil the top end very well, and wouldn't hurt to pour some oil in the oil galley above the points plate.

And kick until you can't kick start anymore, and then kick some more.  Wouldn't hurt to have a temporary oil pressure gauge on the same oil galley to double check oil pressure.

So I SHOULD NOT use electric start to start the bike for the first time?

[RAFster122s]

You won't see oil pressure from kicking it. You can overheat your starter. They are not designed for excessive cranking, they get very warm and need to cool down. Kicking will push oil through the system but if you have the tappet covers off you probably won't see oil getting circulated unless you are using the starter.

The oil pump prime when you assembled the motor is likely drained out of much time has passed. Dropping the oil pan, pulling the pump and repriming the pump wouldn't hurt. If you crank it for a while (up to max of a minute) and don't see oil getting to the galleys in the head through the tappet covers then you definitely would need to pull the pump and reprime it.

[Tracksnblades1]

Kicking or cranking an 836 until the oil light goes out for the first time is easier on you or the starter without the sparkplugs installed. Some myself included use a pressurized prelude (primer) tank and forego the kicking and cranking..😁

[ekpent]

If you haven't done your oil yet it won't hurt to dump at least a quart down through a tappet cover so it will drain down in the sump. Use straight old fashion dino oil for the break in. As mentioned if you want to do a lot of cranking have the plugs out and fuel turned off. On 750's I like to keep the dip stick out of the oil tank and peer down inside with a light when it fires to look for bubbles and good circulation and level dropping.   Good luck.

[Bodi]

You don't need fans for a test start and a few minutes running. For carb balancing, with the engine running quite a while, you do want a fan but a hurricane wind is unnecessary. The engine doesn't melt in slow traffic after all.
Cranking with plugs removed doesn't load the starter much... but starter motors are designed for very low duty cycles - so don't crank it for minutes at a time endlessly just because you jumped to a a big battery that can power such foolishness. You should get oil pressure (via a gauge or by watching for oil to the valvegear) in less than a minute of cranking. Once you do see pressure, meaning the galleries and filter are full, it should come up again almost immediately on start.
Realistically if you used assembly lube on the bottom end and cam lobes/bearings... just starting it and keeping revs way down until you have oil pressure won't do any damage.

[Scootch]

Just a thought... you may want to install one of these to monitor oil pressure.
They are available from many sources for about $30-40. If you don't want to leave it on the bike it can be removed.
Oh and you can get the gauge face in black or white...

[PeWe]

Prime oil pump is really important. If air bubble inside, pump will not function.

I had to remove pump in my K2 and prime it again, let all air out, pump completely submerged in oil, rotating tje sprocket until finger cover on hole will feel the underpressure. Both holes in different rotating direction of sprocket to make underpressure.

The overpressure valve had to be opened when doing this priming, air trapped inside there. You'll see bubbles leaving.

If crank bearings, cam and rockers are lubed with assembly lube more time OK  without oil pressure.

Spin engine without plugs on starter should make pressure within 10 sec constant spinning.

[Ellz10]

Okay first off, thank you all so much for the replies, I needed to know all this.

Second, I had purchased the RS34s from Ken at CycleX and had him test and sync them. Just because I've learned the hard way before I went ahead and did it all again when it got to me. All set there.

Third, I did a wet sump conversion using The Sump Thing, and I will be dropping the pan tonight in order to re-prime the pump because it's been over 6 months since rebuild.

Lastly, I want to be very clear in my understanding here. So I will take the plugs off the motor. Remove the tappet covers. I'll go ahead and pour the required amount of oil into the motor thru the tappet covers (I'm going to pour a bit into each opening so that I can be sure there's oil coating everything and making its way down), turn the gas to OFF, turn the bike on, and finally hit the electric start while keeping a very close eye on both my oil pressure gauge as well as the tappet cover openings to see if any oil is circulating. Crank for no less than 1 minute.

Am I following correctly?


If I'm following correctly, then let's assume that after 10 seconds or so I see oil squirting around the top end thru the tappet cover, what do I do then? Do I stop cranking right away or keep going for a set amount of time? If I stop right away, what steps should be taken after - do I put the tappet covers back on and throw the plugs back on and start her up?

Just want to make sure I'm not going any lthing detrimental to the motor after coming this far.

[Don R]

 If you get oil pressure and flow, it's time to start it.  Fuel on, give the float bowls time to fill and fire it up. 

[RAFster122s]

With tappet covers open it will make a mess when running, so you need to balance the clean up with a minute to pop the covers back on and tighten them down enough for starting.
Since it is now primed a short crank before turning in the fuel will reprime everything to go again.

Just didn't want you to start and have a bunch of oil splashing about making a mess. Seeing oil in the end galleys is enough for me to feel confident before restarts.

[Ellz10]

Sounds great guys, thank you so much!!

[HondaMan]

1. Fill it with oil: the Sump Thing has (or had at one time) a little window on the side of the Sump to see that oil is deeper than the window.
2. Prime the oil system. If you do take it apart again: those little thin paper gaskets should have been 'wetted' (dipped in oil) before assembly so they will seal. With no sparkplugs in it: spin the starter in shorts bursts, up to 5 seconds at a time, to establish oil pressure. DON'T start it until you can get FULL oil pressure (light goes out within 2 seconds of cranking, or 50 PSI minimum on a gage in the main journal after 5 seconds) of it will destroy the crank and bearings.
3. Reinstall the sparkplugs, add fuel and start it: let it run about 1500-2000 RPM for a minute or so before playing around with it. This will put oil in all the right places. Then shut if off, wait 30 seconds for draining, and check the little window for oil depth again: it very likely will be low. This will happen again after it has run for about 10 minutes, so keep an eye on that.

[Ellz10]

1. Fill it with oil: the Sump Thing has (or had at one time) a little window on the side of the Sump to see that oil is deeper than the window.
2. Prime the oil system. If you do take it apart again: those little thin paper gaskets should have been 'wetted' (dipped in oil) before assembly so they will seal. With no sparkplugs in it: spin the starter in shorts bursts, up to 5 seconds at a time, to establish oil pressure. DON'T start it until you can get FULL oil pressure (light goes out within 2 seconds of cranking, or 50 PSI minimum on a gage in the main journal after 5 seconds) of it will destroy the crank and bearings.
3. Reinstall the sparkplugs, add fuel and start it: let it run about 1500-2000 RPM for a minute or so before playing around with it. This will put oil in all the right places. Then shut if off, wait 30 seconds for draining, and check the little window for oil depth again: it very likely will be low. This will happen again after it has run for about 10 minutes, so keep an eye on that.

Thanks Mark, you actually answered 2 questions I came back to ask!!

Out of curiosity, what sound should the bike make when cranking over with plugs off just so I don't get worried?

[PeWe]

It spins much faster
You can remove the plug where it is possible to add an oil pressure gauge.
You will then see when pump is working. Hopefully within 10 sec. Close the plug when oil is coming.

You have to look when running on starter, when pumping it will flow out.

Spin a few sec more, plugs in and start the engine.

[Ellz10]

So I made sure everything was as described above and the moment I hit the start button the whole bike shut off and won't turn back on with the m.lock key.

Should I assume this is an electrical issue? Maybe a short somewhere. A negative cable not fully grounded perhaps?

I unhooked the negative and positive cables from the battery and then back on and the m.Unit still won't light up at all.

Any thoughts?

[Tracksnblades1]

Will the engine turn freely with the foot crank ?

Do you have a main fuse or breaker?

[Ellz10]

Will the engine turn freely with the foot crank ?

Do you have a main fuse or breaker?

I have a 40m fuse going from starter solenoid to m.unit and another 40a going from battery positive to starter solenoid.

I should mention that I'm NOT starting the bike in actuality for the first time. I am pressing the start button for the first time with the plugs off and gas off to get oil to the top end and all the places it should go before I start it for real.

I'm now wondering if perhaps my AG lithium battery is toast because of the way the whole system made that clicking sound just once then everything shut off. I remember the battery had gotten low last month when I was checking out how the signals, headlight and Rear brake all work, but I put it on the lithium charger and it states fully charged. I'm about to go and get it tested to see for sure.

[Tracksnblades1]

Will the engine turn freely with the foot crank ?

Do you have a main fuse or breaker?

I have a 40m fuse going from starter solenoid to m.unit and another 40a going from battery positive to starter solenoid.

I should mention that I'm NOT starting the bike in actuality for the first time. I am pressing the start button for the first time with the plugs off and gas off to get oil to the top end and all the places it should go before I start it for real.

I'm now wondering if perhaps my AG lithium battery is toast because of the way the whole system made that clicking sound just once then everything shut off. I remember the battery had gotten low last month when I was checking out how the signals, headlight and Rear brake all work, but I put it on the lithium charger and it states fully charged. I'm about to go and get it tested to see for sure.

Sounds like you on the right track.

If you have clip ons, or alligators for your VOM meter you can watch the battery voltage during the starter engagement..
If it falls below 10.5 volts it’ll need charged and checked again..

[grcamna2]

You don't need fans for a test start and a few minutes running. For carb balancing, with the engine running quite a while, you do want a fan but a hurricane wind is unnecessary. The engine doesn't melt in slow traffic after all.
Cranking with plugs removed doesn't load the starter much... but starter motors are designed for very low duty cycles - so don't crank it for minutes at a time endlessly just because you jumped to a a big battery that can power such foolishness. You should get oil pressure (via a gauge or by watching for oil to the valvegear) in less than a minute of cranking. Once you do see pressure, meaning the galleries and filter are full, it should come up again almost immediately on start.
Realistically if you used assembly lube on the bottom end and cam lobes/bearings... just starting it and keeping revs way down until you have oil pressure won't do any damage.

+1