Topic: Dad's 1978 Honda CB550k

[grcamna2]

You can also have the shop line-up the bright yellow dot on the tires to the position of the valve stem,which is the best position(the lightest point on each tire to be near the heavy valve stem)for balancing each wheel/tire assembly. Do they also balance your wheels for you ?

[joegeis]

Yes, they balanced them too. I did not know that about the yellow dot!

[grcamna2]

Yes, they balanced them too. I did not know that about the yellow dot!

They'll need to remove the tires to swap the direction to match the arrow for the correct rotation,so they may as well line up the yellow dots to the valve stems;it will help to balance them later by using less weights.

The transmission can be accessed by removing the engine and removing all the case hold-down bolts with the top-end(cyls. & head intact)still connected to the engine.
You have already removed the oil pan once to find that piece of a gear,yes?  I would consider supporting the engine(remove it from the frame)in an upside-down position to gain access to the gearbox,if you feel comfortable doing it like that.

[joegeis]

Oh man, I've been doing some research since last night and it looks like solving this mystery of the found steel chunk in the oil pan has the potential to be a serious project all on its own. It looks like it could potentially be a "tooth" off of parts 8, 10 or 18 potentially. At a minimum, I'm going to need to pull the engine, open up the bottom end to diagnose and replace the damaged piece. Given parts availability and my learning curve, this could potentially put the bike out of commission for several more weeks at a minimum.

Here is what I am thinking though. Since I'm so close to otherwise having this bike back on the road, I could get it running and put a few miles on it for the remainder of the summer. I'm sure more issues will bubble to the surface once I start using the bike again. This would allow me to build a laundry list of other issues to fix at the end of the season all at once. I would hate to do a bottom end rebuild and then a week later find out it needs something else that will require me to pull the engine again. I already bought a full top end gasket kit, so maybe I will just do a full engine tear down and rebuild in the winter.

I understand that if the piece is what we think it is, that riding as is puts additional stress on the remaining parts, but I have to think that the bike can handle it in the short term, no? And yes, a big part of this is me just wanting to ride the damn thing this season!

[grcamna2]

Oh man, I've been doing some research since last night and it looks like solving this mystery of the found steel chunk in the oil pan has the potential to be a serious project all on its own. It looks like it could potentially be a "tooth" off of parts 8, 10 or 18 potentially. At a minimum, I'm going to need to pull the engine, open up the bottom end to diagnose and replace the damaged piece. Given parts availability and my learning curve, this could potentially put the bike out of commission for several more weeks at a minimum.

Here is what I am thinking though. Since I'm so close to otherwise having this bike back on the road, I could get it running and put a few miles on it for the remainder of the summer. I'm sure more issues will bubble to the surface once I start using the bike again. This would allow me to build a laundry list of other issues to fix at the end of the season all at once. I would hate to do a bottom end rebuild and then a week later find out it needs something else that will require me to pull the engine again. I already bought a full top end gasket kit, so maybe I will just do a full engine tear down and rebuild in the winter.

I understand that if the piece is what we think it is, that riding as is puts additional stress on the remaining parts, but I have to think that the bike can handle it in the short term, no? And yes, a big part of this is me just wanting to ride the damn thing this season!

I understand..

[RAFster122s]

That is presuming the bike will run ok with a chunk of gear missing...

[joegeis]

yeah, true. There is no telling how long its been this way. I don't think anyone has ever dropped the oil pan before. If it has issues shifting or staying in gear, I'll park it and pull the engine. We shall see!

[BenelliSEI]

Good Plan. Ride  it and make your “winter list”. Listen carefully for any bad noises and decide after that. STOP if you have to……

[joegeis]

Good Plan. Ride  it and make your “winter list”. Listen carefully for any bad noises and decide after that. STOP if you have to……

Thanks!

That said, once I put the wheels back on and sync the carbs, I think I'll be ready for the first test ride!

[joegeis]

Front end rebuild is complete (steering bearings, brakes, wheel bearings, wheels, tubes, tires, spokes)! I think it looks pretty good! I noticed that once I finished bleeding the brakes, there is some drag on the rotor. The wheel is a little stiff to turn by hand. I've messed with the adjustment screw but I can't seem to find a spot where it doesn't rub. Is this normal?



On a separate note, this airbox issue has been bothering me. Once I reinstalled the airbox and carbs, I was never able to get the boots to fit onto carb 4 well, and they easily pop off, as pictured below. I expect this is going to give me grief as I try to tune the carbs. I feel like I am pulling the airbox forward quite hard and pressing into the clutch cable to get the boot on, but then it easily slips off. Do I have something reinstalled incorrectly here?

[newday777]

" noticed that once I finished bleeding the brakes, there is some drag on the rotor. The wheel is a little stiff to turn by hand. I've messed with the adjustment screw but I can't seem to find a spot where it doesn't rub. Is this normal?"

No it isn't normal.
Pump the lever. Then spin the wheel as it's raised off the floor to feel the binding. Then with a hose on the bleeder, crack the bleeder. Does the wheel spin easier? If so,  you have the return port in the master cylinder plugged. Use a wire from a wire brush held with needle nose pliers to poke the wire in the tiny return hole(smaller of the 2 holes).
Then bleed the system again. Then try the spin the wheel again after pumping the master cylinder.  Any better?

[RAFster122s]

Might be time to buy a set of brake hoses. Apex Brakes builds nice lines in a variety of finishes and I think they have stock looking rubber coated Teflon braided line too. If you don’t know when they were last changed them it would be a good investment to do them to rule them out as an issue.
Brake hoses can fail internally being slow for the fluid to return to the MC acting somewhat like a one way valve. Or, the can act like a hard one way valve not releasing. Sitting in old fluid gathering water through hygroscopic (?spelling? ) action can lead to their failure.

[joegeis]

Might be time to buy a set of brake hoses. Apex Brakes builds nice lines in a variety of finishes and I think they have stock looking rubber coated Teflon braided line too. If you don’t know when they were last changed them it would be a good investment to do them to rule them out as an issue.
Brake hoses can fail internally being slow for the fluid to return to the MC acting somewhat like a one way valve. Or, the can act like a hard one way valve not releasing. Sitting in old fluid gathering water through hygroscopic (?spelling? ) action can lead to their failure.

I'm using a new master cylinder, new stainless cables, new piston, new gasket and new pads. Only thing being reused is the caliper

[joegeis]

" noticed that once I finished bleeding the brakes, there is some drag on the rotor. The wheel is a little stiff to turn by hand. I've messed with the adjustment screw but I can't seem to find a spot where it doesn't rub. Is this normal?"

No it isn't normal.
Pump the lever. Then spin the wheel as it's raised off the floor to feel the binding. Then with a hose on the bleeder, crack the bleeder. Does the wheel spin easier? If so,  you have the return port in the master cylinder plugged. Use a wire from a wire brush held with needle nose pliers to poke the wire in the tiny return hole(smaller of the 2 holes).
Then bleed the system again. Then try the spin the wheel again after pumping the master cylinder.  Any better?

Thanks, I will give this a shot tomorrow. I spent the evening today getting my butt kicked by the rear wheel bearings 

[grcamna2]

You may need to inspect the airbox rubber inlet flanges to see if you have the same ones that are correct for each(#4)carb.
Did you loosen the airbox mounting bolts and pull the four rubber inlet pipes up tight(completely remove each of the holdown clamps first,then reattach each one)all the way forward on each carb. inlet? Tighten the airbox mounts Last.
You may need to soak each rubber inlet pipe in a Wintergreen oil solution to make them more pliable;as with everything,they 'shrink with age'.

[BenelliSEI]

" noticed that once I finished bleeding the brakes, there is some drag on the rotor. The wheel is a little stiff to turn by hand. I've messed with the adjustment screw but I can't seem to find a spot where it doesn't rub. Is this normal?"

No it isn't normal.
Pump the lever. Then spin the wheel as it's raised off the floor to feel the binding. Then with a hose on the bleeder, crack the bleeder. Does the wheel spin easier? If so,  you have the return port in the master cylinder plugged. Use a wire from a wire brush held with needle nose pliers to poke the wire in the tiny return hole(smaller of the 2 holes).
Then bleed the system again. Then try the spin the wheel again after pumping the master cylinder.  Any better?

Thanks, I will give this a shot tomorrow. I spent the evening today getting my butt kicked by the rear wheel bearings 

If you are using a new master and hoses I doubt anything is plugged. The problem is more likely crud under the new seal in your caliper. What builds up in there is as hard as concrete. I’ve built a bent scraper from a dental tool for just the job. Any residue forces the seal out against the piston, causing the drag. Are you sure it was spotless?

[joegeis]

Got a few issues to come back to, but today I'm fighting this damn rear wheel bearing! I even went out and bought a bearing puller slide hammer. I super heated the hub and have a good bite with the collar, and no matter how hard I hammer, I can't get the damn thing to budge at all! I even flipped it over and tried to hammer out the collar from the other side with a regular hammer and drift. No budging, but I am bending my drift... I cannot fathom what is holding this in so hard. It is SIGNIFICANTLY tighter than the front, which was easy in comparison. I'm about to go back out for round three. I might try no heat this time. If this doesn't work, I guess I'm going back to the shop and having them do it...

[denward17]

Hate to ask, but you did take out the retainer?

[CycleRanger]

Hate to ask, but you did take out the retainer?

And did you know it's reverse threaded?

[joegeis]

Yes, and yes. The retainer was really really tight, but not much of a challenge compared to these bearings. I absolutely could not pull the slide hammer hard enough to make any progress, so I resorted to flipping it over and beating on it with a drift. I bent the puller collet enough that it isn't biting well now. not even a budge on the bearing... I guess I'm bringing this tire back to the shop tomorrow. I'm so frustrated!!

Images from both sides:

[CycleRanger]

Yes, and yes. The retainer was really really tight, but not much of a challenge compared to these bearings. I absolutely could not pull the slide hammer hard enough to make any progress, so I resorted to flipping it over and beating on it with a drift. I bent the puller collet enough that it isn't biting well now. not even a budge on the bearing... I guess I'm bringing this tire back to the shop tomorrow. I'm so frustrated!!

Images from both sides:

You have to use a big screwdriver or other implement to push/pry the spacer over enough to get a bite on the inner bearing race with a drift or something like that and drive out the bearing.
I usually use a big screwdriver that I have sacrificed to this sort of activity.

[joegeis]

thats the way I started a couple of days ago, but I couldn't get a good enough bite with the tools I had, so I bought this. I tried using it as intended, setting the collet at the gap between the collar and bearing and using the slide hammer, but it wouldn't budge. Then I flipped it over and used a drift to beat on the collet from the other side. I was able to apply much more force, so much that I damaged the collet, but the bearing did not budge.

[CycleRanger]

Also you want to drive out the smaller bearing first, the larger bearing has a collar that you can damage if try to drive it out first.

[joegeis]

Also you want to drive out the smaller bearing first, the larger bearing has a collar that you can damage if try to drive it out first.

Ah, I've been going back and forth on both sides, I'm sure I've probably damaged the collar and/or that spacer by now.

I just found this post, which I may try tomorrow. I only have a heat gun, no torch. It worked fine for the front, but maybe not enough for this one.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,145633.0.html

[joegeis]

Finally got the bearings out today! I used a socket to catch the lip of the spacer, which finally worked for me. I used a rasp to clean up the burrs and scratches I had put into the collar and spacer and reinstalled the new bearings. I had driven the large one in too far and put tension on the collar, binding bearings, but a few little taps on the spacer and everything started spinning freely again. This has definitely been the worst part of the rebuild so far! I'm glad to be done with it!

Tomorrow I'll be putting together the rest of the rear wheel and reinstalling it on the bike, along with a new chain. I will do a little more rust cleanup on the exhaust since I have it off the bike right now as well.

In addition to the other issues, I noticed a new one today as well. There was a drop of oil hanging from the bottom of carb 1 bowl. I have no idea how oil could get into the carb, and I havent opened anything up to investigate further yet, but its on the list now:

1. Front brake binding
2. Oil leak
3. Airbox boots
4. Oil in carb

List seems to be getting longer, not shorter lately!

Good news is I finally found the title! My dad signed it and gave it to me 20 years ago when he put the bike in storage, and I've had it in a lock box this whole time. A couple months ago I took it out to check the model info, and misplaced it! I'll be headed into the DMV to switch the title over and get new plates soon. May be a little optimistic, but I want to make sure I'm not waiting on paperwork once I've got the thing ready to ride!