Topic: Clutch issue

[Floshenbarnical]

Apologies if this has been posted before. My rebuilt clutch isn’t working - I followed all the instructions but the ball bearing assembly that extends when you apply rotational force via the cable is not mating with the plate underneath it when I assemble the outer cover with the lever on it. There’s a fraction of clearance that means it just rotates in place rather than extending.

I looked on Vintage CB750 to see if I’ve missed anything and there appears to be a “special angled washer 16mm” for sale. I don’t have one. I don’t remember seeing it when I took my clutch apart so if I ever had one I’ve thrown it away.

Is this my problem? Is that where it goes? Between the outer surface of the plate on top of the spring and the ball bearing assembly?

[MauiK3]

Which bike?
Find an exploded view on one of the sites, should help

[scottly]

Do you mean that the lifter assembly doesn't move in and out when it rotates the full amount, or are you saying it only rotates a little bit??

[Doobie]

If you mean a CB750, there is a washer, and it is slightly curved and needs to go on with the curve facing down.  Part number 90481292000. To avoid confusion, here is a link to a video that shows the part:

[Floshenbarnical]

Sorry folks. It's a CB750F2, and I have all the components installed correctly according to the numerous videos I've watched. I was informed that I can adjust the travel of the BB lifter using the flathead bolt inside the locking nut. I got it to where it's "supposed" to be, i.e. tighten it until it *just* seats and then back off 1/4-1/8 turn. It is, however, incredibly stiff and doesn't appear to be engaging the clutch correctly regardless of my cable adjustment.

 I should mention that I have the High Performance Clutch Springs from VintageCB750 installed, and having read a couple other forum posts it looks like others have had similar problems. I'm hoping it's because the springs are too stiff, and I'm hoping I didn't absent-mindedly throw the original ones away ...

[Floshenbarnical]

Update: I did not throw away the original springs. I left work under the pretense of having left my laptop charger at home (I live 5 mins down the street) and checked my box of parts I took off the bike. Buried under the original footpeg plates were 4 oily and dusty springs. I'll replace them tonight, and hopefully that's the issue. I'll also take out the basket and double-check the order of the stack in there. If anyone knows the order or friction/ steel/ double-steel off the top of their head for an F2 I'd be much obliged. I'm pretty sure I got it right because I just copied what was already in there but you never know. The PO #$%*ed up plenty of other things.

Question: is it possible to over-tighten the bolts that hold the spring plate in place? I know there's a torque value but I can't afford a torque wrench, so I just tightened them all the way down.

[MauiK3]

Good luck!

[Floshenbarnical]

Can anyone tell me how tight I should be getting these bolts that hold the spring plate in place?

[Don R]

 The smart ass answer is tighten them until they strip and back off a half turn. Snug and then a little more? If the spec is 5 ft. lbs imagine a 10 pound weight hanging on your 6" ratchet.
 
  Harbor freight sells a decent torque wrench that's cheap. I have a couple and regularly compare them to each other and my beam type old craftsman.
  The most important part is to be sure the splines line up properly so it can go together all the way, there are four possibilities, two work, two don't.

[bryanj]

I have never trusted a torque wrench on those just done up tight

[Floshenbarnical]

The smart ass answer is tighten them until they strip and back off a half turn. Snug and then a little more? If the spec is 5 ft. lbs imagine a 10 pound weight hanging on your 6" ratchet.
 
  Harbor freight sells a decent torque wrench that's cheap. I have a couple and regularly compare them to each other and my beam type old craftsman.
  The most important part is to be sure the splines line up properly so it can go together all the way, there are four possibilities, two work, two don't.

Do you mean on the plate?

[Floshenbarnical]

Ok, original springs replaced. Clutch still fairly stiff and doesn’t appear to be engaging at all- if I put the bike in first and engage the clutch, the rear wheel still locks when I try to rotate it on the stand.

What am I missing? Can someone familiar with the F2 walk me through the rebuild process - what order the discs+ double steel discs go in, etc. I have a lot of hair but I won’t by the end of the day, lol.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Are you referring to a schematic? That will show the disc order. How many fiber discs? How many steel discs?

Can you post some pictures? Clutch basket by itself showing the top, inside of clutch cover, assembled basket. It's too easy to start mixing and matching parts and get what appears to be correct but may not be. They ALL look identical but may have slight differences you are unaware of.

[HondaMan]

  Harbor freight sells a decent torque wrench that's cheap.

I used a set of those on a CB750K4 rebuild one time, around 2016 or so, because I was using the shop of the company where I worked then (with their permission) after-hours.
The head head gasket leaked oil after 10 minutes of running.
I dug out my "old" Craftsman analog beam-style torque wrench (from 1969) as I tore off the whole cam assembly again to recheck torque.
The 210 in-lb setting of the Harbor Freight torque wrench showed 160 in-lbs before the nuts turned using the Craftsman analog wrench.
Then I turned the engine over and found the crankcase bolts similarly were only at 105 in-lbs before the analog wrench started turning those, which also require 210 in-lbs.
So, I had to re-open the whole bottom end to get to the rod bolts, because they turned out to be also very lightly torqued, well below spec, from the HF torque wrench.

I got another gasket set....put it all back together, and threw the [brand new] torque wrench in the dumpster. When the boss came out looking for it one day to assemble something on the machinery we were building and couldn't find his brand-new click-style torque wrench, I told him all the above. At first he was mad. Then he bought a SnapOn clicking torque wrench set - which are clearly marked "Made in China".

I never used those, either...

[Floshenbarnical]

Are you referring to a schematic? That will show the disc order. How many fiber discs? How many steel discs?

Can you post some pictures? Clutch basket by itself showing the top, inside of clutch cover, assembled basket. It's too easy to start mixing and matching parts and get what appears to be correct but may not be. They ALL look identical but may have slight differences you are unaware of.

I can post some pictures, do you have a link for a schematic?

[Floshenbarnical]

Looks like I have 6 reg cork plates + 1 cork plate with the bigger tabs, and 5 steel plates + 1 of the double steel plates. Are these missing plates causing my issue?

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Nothing missing there. That's good. Eliminate that potential issue.

If you happen to have an earlier clutch cover (not the chrome "cover") in the mix it would not give you enough room and everything would be packed in too tight. I misused an earlier basket (narrower) with a later clutch pack (wider) like you have and that was too tight. Kinda hard to determine these things without one of each side by side. Same goes with the different clutch covers.

Double steel is shown as the 4th steel from the front but I have my doubts if 1 position or so would really make a difference.

It's all a process of elimination to determine if you have all the correct parts. Then it's about the assembly.

https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb750f-750-super-sport-1978-usa-clutch_bighu0058e0209_1b8b.gif

Also, If #2 is inserted into the pack 1/2 / 1 tooth off the pack will not fit together properly.

[Floshenbarnical]

Should I have this much clearance?

Re: having all the parts, covers etc: Clutch was working perfectly well before I took it apart. I put everything that was in there, back in. As far as I’m aware I put it back the way it was, just with new plates.

Is there any chance it’s not moving because the motor/ sump/ tank are oil-less? Does it need to be started up and turned over to get everything operating? I just have it on the stand right now.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Rotate #2  by 1 tooth and it should fit together properly. Edit - without that gap

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Move your double steel back to the 4th steel position while you're at it from the front. That is if I'm looking at it in the proper orientation LOL

[Floshenbarnical]

Is there any chance it’s not moving because the motor/ sump/ tank are oil-less? Does it need to be started up and turned over to get everything operating? I just have it on the stand right now.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Not necessary.

You should be fine as long as you've used assembly lube on the bearing/rotating surfaces including the cam/cam towers.

I think you should be good to go with your clutch if you get the pack together properly. Any luck? It should all fit together with only a very slight amount of play/clearance vs that ~ 1/4" you show. The way you show it, the teeth are not inter-messing at the bottom and are on top of each other. One click and it should drop into place without that gap.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

You mentioned you could not find the "special washer". You are probably referring to part 14 from the schematic which is at 5:40 in the hack a week video. It is not flat. It has a slight offset in the center. Be sure you have that and it is installed in the right orientation.

[Floshenbarnical]

Not necessary.

You should be fine as long as you've used assembly lube on the bearing/rotating surfaces including the cam/cam towers.

I think you should be good to go with your clutch if you get the pack together properly. Any luck? It should all fit together with only a very slight amount of play/clearance vs that ~ 1/4" you show. The way you show it, the teeth are not inter-messing at the bottom and are on top of each other. One click and it should drop into place without that gap.

Can you PM me your address so I can mail a case of beer or a bottle of wine or something

Success

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

LMAO. It's what we do here. I've had SOOOO much help over the years I just try to pay it forward.  That's my reward but Thank You.