Topic: Motorcycle Diaries

[Rocking-M]

Just watched the "Motorcycle Diaries". I have to say it made me think a bit
different of Che Guevara.

[Raul CB750K1]

If you do a search there was some discussion going on about the movie a few weeks ago. I also liked the movie, even when the bike disappears before reaching a third of the total lenght and doesn't reappear.

[CBGBs]

I never saw the movie but I think Che never amounted to anything worth a sh*t. He's a brutal fascist or at least an acomplice.
He just wanted to help the less fortunate.... blah, blah, bleeding heart crap..........ends up killing masses somehow. I don't call that virtue

[Serenity]

perhaps you should watch the movie then....As a very young man his motives started off in the right direction..as in a lot of things in life, power and greed have a tendency to overwhelm many..sad part of life...the movie gave me insight into how any of us can change given the power over others. HE didnt start out with the ideal of being a *murdering brutal fascist.*  So yes its quite a interesting movie. It will never change what happened but the movie certainly shows us what can happen to people over time and growth and not always for the best.

[CrisPDuk]

I never saw the movie but I think Che never amounted to anything worth a sh*t. He's a brutal fascist or at least an acomplice.
He just wanted to help the less fortunate.... blah, blah, bleeding heart crap..........ends up killing masses somehow. I don't call that virtue

Couldn't have put it much better myself

[Raul CB750K1]

I never saw the movie but I think Che never amounted to anything worth a sh*t. He's a brutal fascist or at least an acomplice.
He just wanted to help the less fortunate.... blah, blah, bleeding heart crap..........ends up killing masses somehow. I don't call that virtue

Not really trying to start a political debate, but I've learned that history is written by winners, there are always two sides to every story, and neither the good guys are that good nor the bad guys are that bad.


Raul

[Goldbug]

I never saw the movie but I think Che never amounted to anything worth a sh*t. He's a brutal fascist or at least an acomplice.
He just wanted to help the less fortunate.... blah, blah, bleeding heart crap..........ends up killing masses somehow. I don't call that virtue

If you have any intellectual curiousity whatsoever I'd suggest watching the movie.

Keep in mind that while helping the "less fortunate" in Iraq we ended up killing over 100,000 masses somehow, principly in air strikes. Try not to let the typical ideas we've been fed about "good guys" and "bad guys" determine who is allowed to end up killing masses somehow when they're trying to help the less fortunate.

For the record, I'm against any sort of forcing of ideals, especially when your most convincing argument is the silencing of any counter discussion. In that respect, I'd say Che, along with his cohorts, were misguided. But on the other hand, not only is Castro's regime more popular among Cuban's than Bush is among Americans, I'd go so far as to say that Castro is more popular among Amercans as well. 

[andy750]

Id also suggest watching the very good documentary "Fidel" as well as the one about the Haitian president "President Aristide" - both very interesting with regards to American foreign policy 

cheers
Andy

[Chris Schneiter]

Forget the politics! Two guys, a bunch of luggage (and a dog) on a Norton 500 1 banger? I wouldn't mess with Che'! He was nuts!

[nickjtc]

Hang on a sec while I go and get the beverage du jour and my favourite snack. This looks like it could turn into an interesting thread.

OK, back again. Can't say that I followed Che's career, except that I understand he was murdered by the CIA, with body parts removed to prove identification. I can't even make an informed comment on him as a person.....but, getting back to the film, I thought it was very good, even if taken at its most simplistic: two buddies go for a razz around South America on an old bike. One is hornier than all lookout and the other is just trying to find himself. Loved the back story about the bike, but grimaced at the 'offs'.

[Rocking-M]

I think the ney Che 'ers do themselves a disservice without reading a bit about Che.
Perhaps from another source other than their governments propaganda.
As Raul said, "the winners write the history".

Let me start you out on one,

http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/guevar.htm

[nickjtc]

If the Argentina that Che grew up in had actually been the kind of society he espoused in his later years it would be interesting to conjecture whether he would have had the opportunity or wherewithal  to own a motorcycle at all...

[CBGBs]

I just feel strongly that he didn't amount to anything good. I'm sure the movie would paint a flattering picture of the SOB, but I don't think that would qualify me to better judge what he ended up.
I will refrain from further political discussions, because I've done all of it before and it was too much fun. I don't have the time to waste on the same discussions.
What's so funny bout peace, love, and understandin.

[BobbyR]

If you have never travelled in South America and saw the grinding poverty and injustice he saw if would truly offend you. I am no fan of Che, but you can see he had an opportunity to stir up trouble there.

[Skonnie Boy]

Che Guevara makes the best t-shirts, I swear.  And album covers.  And dorm room posters.  And pins.  And bumper stickers.

I wouldn't call any history written yet as far as Cuba and the US.  And as far as the cold war goes, neither side can hold any mantle of truth and righteousness.  Che fought a war, or revolution.  The West fought against it.  Millions of  people died.  We killed many people, so did his contingent.  Its absurd to split hairs over which deaths were "justified" or not. 

That said, I wonder whether John Foster Dulles took any road trips in his lifetime.  If he did, they weren't apparently movie-worthy. 

Maybe if he had had interesting facial hair and not driven a Chrysler, things would have been different.

Great movie.  We all remember idealism, don't we?

[CrisPDuk]

I wouldn't call any history written yet as far as Cuba and the US.  And as far as the cold war goes, neither side can hold any mantle of truth and righteousness.  Che fought a war, or revolution.  The West fought against it.  Millions of  people died.  We killed many people, so did his contingent.  Its absurd to split hairs over which deaths were "justified" or not.

In response to this, I was going to say that the difference was Guevara did most of his fighting for the right to impose his views upon the masses

But when you think about it, that's really no different to what the CIA were (and still are) doing really

[Goldbug]

But when you think about it, that's really no different to what the CIA were (and still are) doing really

Precisely. It is rumored that the CIA comes in third place, behind Mao and Stalin, but tied with Hitler, for instigating, enabling and supporting genocide. These rumors hit National Geographic, surprisingly, but don't expect much press in the U.S.

[BobbyR]

If you do a search there was some discussion going on about the movie a few weeks ago. I also liked the movie, even when the bike disappears before reaching a third of the total lenght and doesn't reappear.

That is because he was riding a Norton. Had they been one of our CB750s, they would have made it all the way to New York and made a fortune on Wall Street. So maybe Honda would have changed history again?