Topic: Piggybacking a Lithium-Ion Battery for First Start After Rebuild

[Ellz10]

So another member had mentioned it would be a good idea to piggyback my battery with a larger one during the initial cranking of my first attempt at starting after a fresh rebuild. I thought it a good idea and then realized I can't use a regular battery to piggyback a lithium ion battery.

So my question is this: do I just buy a large car size Lithium-Ion battery or do I get something like the MicroStart from Antigravity and piggyback off that?

I also read about the race teams that use battery booster systems, but I've been unable to ascertain what exactly they use to do it.

Any thoughts, opinions, or insight is welcome, thanks!

[TwoTired]

You can parallel same technology batteries without much concern to increase ranking power. Do remember that the starter motor can overheat with more than a 30 sec crank time.

Different tech batteries have different voltage levels at equal charge states.  Current will flow from higher voltage to lower voltage until they are equalized.  This is not recommended for different tech battery combinations.

[brianc]

I just take the plugs out, kill ignition and crank until the oil pressure comes up (a few cranks 15-20 secs at a time). Load without the plugs is way lower, single standard battery handles it just fine.

[Don R]

 Remove the high tech battery and start it with a lawn tractor or car battery and jumper cables. When you are satisfied with it, put the lithium battery in. 

[Ellz10]

Remove the high tech battery and start it with a lawn tractor or car battery and jumper cables. When you are satisfied with it, put the lithium battery in.

I'm not sure how that would interfere with the Rick's Lithium-Ion Reg/Rec..

[TwoTired]

Remove the high tech battery and start it with a lawn tractor or car battery and jumper cables. When you are satisfied with it, put the lithium battery in.

I'm not sure how that would interfere with the Rick's Lithium-Ion Reg/Rec..

It won’t.   Are you planning to fully charge the jump battery with it?

[Ellz10]

Remove the high tech battery and start it with a lawn tractor or car battery and jumper cables. When you are satisfied with it, put the lithium battery in.

I'm not sure how that would interfere with the Rick's Lithium-Ion Reg/Rec..

It won’t.   Are you planning to fully charge the jump battery with it?

If a regular car battery won't be detrimental to anything on the bike, then I will use it to start the bike and yes I'll make sure it's fully charged.

I just didn't think it'd work with all the electrics I have going.

[willbird]

I had a new AGM battery and with plugs out it easily did the job of cranking over to make sure I had pressure on a temporary installed oil pressure gauge.

Bill

[TwoTired]

Just be certain you NEVER connect that battery with reverse polarity, even for an instant.

[newday777]

Remove the high tech battery and start it with a lawn tractor or car battery and jumper cables. When you are satisfied with it, put the lithium battery in.

I'm not sure how that would interfere with the Rick's Lithium-Ion Reg/Rec..

It won’t.   Are you planning to fully charge the jump battery with it?

If a regular car battery won't be detrimental to anything on the bike, then I will use it to start the bike and yes I'll make sure it's fully charged.

I just didn't think it'd work with all the electrics I have going.

Car battery is OK if, the car motor isn't running.

[TwoTired]

Remove the high tech battery and start it with a lawn tractor or car battery and jumper cables. When you are satisfied with it, put the lithium battery in.

I'm not sure how that would interfere with the Rick's Lithium-Ion Reg/Rec..

It won’t.   Are you planning to fully charge the jump battery with it?

If a regular car battery won't be detrimental to anything on the bike, then I will use it to start the bike and yes I'll make sure it's fully charged.

I just didn't think it'd work with all the electrics I have going.

Car battery is OK if, the car motor isn't running.

I’ll have disagree here.  It makes little difference about car running for a number of electrical reasons.  The alternator can’t make more power than the charged battery.  And the extra voltage it may provide is nothing the bike can’t accept well within tolerance.  I’m not sure how the myth got started.  But, I suspect polarity reversal happened related to any failures that may have been encountered.  I am willing to entertain any electrical reasons in support of the recommendation, though  But, every jump start I’ve made car to car has been with the motor running without any ill effects and I find no reason a motorcycle would be any different.  In fact, I have first hand experience doing that as well without catastrophe.

[newday777]

Remove the high tech battery and start it with a lawn tractor or car battery and jumper cables. When you are satisfied with it, put the lithium battery in.

I'm not sure how that would interfere with the Rick's Lithium-Ion Reg/Rec..

It won’t.   Are you planning to fully charge the jump battery with it?

If a regular car battery won't be detrimental to anything on the bike, then I will use it to start the bike and yes I'll make sure it's fully charged.

I just didn't think it'd work with all the electrics I have going.

Car battery is OK if, the car motor isn't running.

I’ll have disagree here.  It makes little difference about car running for a number of electrical reasons.  The alternator can’t make more power than the charged battery.  And the extra voltage it may provide is nothing the bike can’t accept well within tolerance.  I’m not sure how the myth got started.  But, I suspect polarity reversal happened related to any failures that may have been encountered.  I am willing to entertain any electrical reasons in support of the recommendation, though  But, every jump start I’ve made car to car has been with the motor running without any ill effects and I find no reason a motorcycle would be any different.  In fact, I have first hand experience doing that as well without catastrophe.

Car to Car/truck yes you are correct.
BUT.....
Car alternators put out far more amps than most motorcycles. You are giving out bad advice on hooking your running Car to a motorcycle. You will fry someone's bike electronics into smoke.

[TwoTired]

Remove the high tech battery and start it with a lawn tractor or car battery and jumper cables. When you are satisfied with it, put the lithium battery in.

I'm not sure how that would interfere with the Rick's Lithium-Ion Reg/Rec..

It won’t.   Are you planning to fully charge the jump battery with it?

If a regular car battery won't be detrimental to anything on the bike, then I will use it to start the bike and yes I'll make sure it's fully charged.

I just didn't think it'd work with all the electrics I have going.

Car battery is OK if, the car motor isn't running.

I’ll have disagree here.  It makes little difference about car running for a number of electrical reasons.  The alternator can’t make more power than the charged battery.  And the extra voltage it may provide is nothing the bike can’t accept well within tolerance.  I’m not sure how the myth got started.  But, I suspect polarity reversal happened related to any failures that may have been encountered.  I am willing to entertain any electrical reasons in support of the recommendation, though  But, every jump start I’ve made car to car has been with the motor running without any ill effects and I find no reason a motorcycle would be any different.  In fact, I have first hand experience doing that as well without catastrophe.

Car to Car/truck yes you are correct.
BUT.....
Car alternators put out far more amps than most motorcycles. You are giving out bad advice on hooking your running Car to a motorcycle. You will fry someone's bike electronics into smoke.

.  Sorry, your offer of an irrelevant fact does not support your assertion. I=E/R. Car alternators only deliver max amps if there is a demand from the end device.  Same as any battery.  Even a motorcycle battery can deliver more amps than the typical car alternator.  Very few car alternators have the capability to deliver more that 100 amps.   An MC battery can deliver over 300 amps.  But, neither device will do so unless there is a demand for such current.  That is the real world physics of how electricity works.  If there is bad advice in this thread, you offered it with no way to support your claim.  And only spreading fear to scare someone into belief of your unfounded myth propagation.  Ask yourself this.  If an MC battery can supply 100-200amps to the starter motor when that demand is enabled.  Why doesn’t that power overcome every other electrical device enabled on the bike?  The answer is that even though power is available, the demand is not there. The devices only use what they require to operate, not everything available at the source.  The same applies to auto power sources shared to MC circuits.  Lastly, car batteries commonly supply routinely 600 or more amps for starting and are capable of supplying far  more than that for short periods of time. ( ever short one out?) This is far more than the alternators are capable of delivering…ever.  How do you justify fearing the alternator over the car battery for attachment to the motorcycle electrical system.  I’d advise you all to stop listening to old wives for your myth propagation.

[willbird]

Remove the high tech battery and start it with a lawn tractor or car battery and jumper cables. When you are satisfied with it, put the lithium battery in.

I'm not sure how that would interfere with the Rick's Lithium-Ion Reg/Rec..

It won’t.   Are you planning to fully charge the jump battery with it?

If a regular car battery won't be detrimental to anything on the bike, then I will use it to start the bike and yes I'll make sure it's fully charged.

I just didn't think it'd work with all the electrics I have going.

Car battery is OK if, the car motor isn't running.

I’ll have disagree here.  It makes little difference about car running for a number of electrical reasons.  The alternator can’t make more power than the charged battery.  And the extra voltage it may provide is nothing the bike can’t accept well within tolerance.  I’m not sure how the myth got started.  But, I suspect polarity reversal happened related to any failures that may have been encountered.  I am willing to entertain any electrical reasons in support of the recommendation, though  But, every jump start I’ve made car to car has been with the motor running without any ill effects and I find no reason a motorcycle would be any different.  In fact, I have first hand experience doing that as well without catastrophe.

Car alternators and electrical system USED to be pretty simple. The stuff made since the mid 2000's often uses the ECU to control charging in an attempt to save a few ounces of gasoline in a typical trip. We had a 2008 Trailblazer and they are infamous for charging system issues.If the owner starts one and drives it immediately rather than waiting 60 seconds for some fuel vapor purge cycle to complete the darn thing may never charge correctly the whole driving trip.

Overall in today's world I would not jump anything with a newer vehicle that I owned or am responsible for with the engine running. Alternators also can be a real PITA mechanically now to change out.

[bryanj]

Even better when you have to connect the dealer computer to tell the ecu you have fitted a new alternater

[Tracksnblades1]

I’ll have disagree here.  It makes little difference about car running for a number of electrical reasons.  The alternator can’t make more power than the charged battery.  And the extra voltage it may provide is nothing the bike can’t accept well within tolerance.  I’m not sure how the myth got started.  But, I suspect polarity reversal happened related to any failures that may have been encountered.  I am willing to entertain any electrical reasons in support of the recommendation, though  But, every jump start I’ve made car to car has been with the motor running without any ill effects and I find no reason a motorcycle would be any different.  In fact, I have first hand experience doing that as well without catastrophe.

Car to Car/truck yes you are correct.
BUT.....
Car alternators put out far more amps than most motorcycles. You are giving out bad advice on hooking your running Car to a motorcycle. You will fry someone's bike electronics into smoke.

Read the electrical reason he stated. You can’t argue with facts despite anecdotal myths perpetuated.

The vehicle being jumped is drawing power from the battery of the donor, not the alternator. The donor vehicle’s alternator is charging the donor battery only to its limit. The vehicle being jumped only draws what it needs; it doesn’t consume what’s available beyond its limits.

Electromotive Force (EMF) lesson today…?

Carry on 😇

[TwoTired]

Remove the high tech battery and start it with a lawn tractor or car battery and jumper cables. When you are satisfied with it, put the lithium battery in.

I'm not sure how that would interfere with the Rick's Lithium-Ion Reg/Rec..

It won’t.   Are you planning to fully charge the jump battery with it?

If a regular car battery won't be detrimental to anything on the bike, then I will use it to start the bike and yes I'll make sure it's fully charged.

I just didn't think it'd work with all the electrics I have going.

Car battery is OK if, the car motor isn't running.

I’ll have disagree here.  It makes little difference about car running for a number of electrical reasons.  The alternator can’t make more power than the charged battery.  And the extra voltage it may provide is nothing the bike can’t accept well within tolerance.  I’m not sure how the myth got started.  But, I suspect polarity reversal happened related to any failures that may have been encountered.  I am willing to entertain any electrical reasons in support of the recommendation, though  But, every jump start I’ve made car to car has been with the motor running without any ill effects and I find no reason a motorcycle would be any different.  In fact, I have first hand experience doing that as well without catastrophe.

Car alternators and electrical system USED to be pretty simple. The stuff made since the mid 2000's often uses the ECU to control charging in an attempt to save a few ounces of gasoline in a typical trip. We had a 2008 Trailblazer and they are infamous for charging system issues.If the owner starts one and drives it immediately rather than waiting 60 seconds for some fuel vapor purge cycle to complete the darn thing may never charge correctly the whole driving trip.

Overall in today's world I would not jump anything with a newer vehicle that I owned or am responsible for with the engine running. Alternators also can be a real PITA mechanically now to change out.

A car battery is a huge buffer for ironing out electrical power.  If you are connecting to the battery posts, it acts like a large anvil for limiting electrical pulses and surges, smoothing them out.  It has very large capacitance and inductance values.  This device behaves that way for connecting things externally or internally as a bi directional smoother.  The cars own starter motor and HV ignition pulses are the cars greatest threat to auto electronics making surges and electrical noise.  And if the car's electronics is engineered to survive that routinely, it can survive a motorcycle starter's loads with ease.  If you are attaching jump cables to car parts other than battery posts, there is some small chance you can bypass engineered protections in the vehicle.  Don't do that.  I'm not much of a believer in anecdotal fear warnings unfounded in electrical theory or true science.  I have learned too much of things electrical to be swayed by unsupported un-factual fear warnings.  I certainly don't know everything. However, what I have retained is solid foundation understandings.  Disagree if you want.  It is your choice to chose fictional unreasonable fear of what you don't understand over physics and fact.    But, please don't warn of impending electrical doom without telling me exactly why doing so is detrimental in electrical terms.