Author Topic: Bike not pulling its own weight  (Read 848 times)

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Offline nateweisiger02

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Bike not pulling its own weight
« on: June 10, 2023, 11:27:47 AM »
Hey guys, I have a 1978 cb750k. Kinda new to bikes but got myself in deep and had to do a full restoration on this bike. Sat for 15 years before I got it. Info: I just finished an engine rebuild, rebuilt the carb, and chopped the exhaust below the foot peg. Compression is good, just reset valve clearance, all cylinders are getting spark, after chopping exhaust the bike had a hard time starting so I turned all the mixture screws an 1/8 turn out. The bike now runs with the choke on. Synced the carbs, 1,2, and 3 have about 14-16 inches of vacuum at 1.5 turns out on the idle screw. Cyl 4 has around 5 and won’t move, sprayed starter fluid all around the boots and nothing changed, so not sure what the problem is there. Problem: First start of the day, the bike runs a little rough, but after about 30 seconds it idles just fine and sounds great when revving, then put it in gear and it doesn’t want to go anywhere. I’m confused how it will idle and rev fine once warmed up, but it can barely pull its own weight. Has anyone else had this problem, or know what I should check to fix this problem. First I was thinking the drop in back pressure from the exhaust was the problem, but after a ton of reading, that would not cause this big of a problem. Could the choke being on cause thins much of a problem? I have not tried running it with it off recently. Thank you to anyone who can provide any advice!!

Offline nateweisiger02

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2023, 11:29:57 AM »
Would like to add, I am running the stock air box. It didn’t like the pods so I threw the stock air box on and it ran so much better.

Offline bryanj

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2023, 11:48:00 AM »
The 78 prefer exhaust back pressure and i bet its pd carbs and they are blocked
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Offline denward17

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2023, 11:49:48 AM »
Could you describe "not pulling it's own weight" better?

Is the engine bogging down when you try to take off?  Is it killing the engine?

Can you tell us what was done to the head/valves.

You may want to try the clear tube test on the carbs to understand where the float levels are, sounds like it could be too lean if you have to leave the choke on most of the time to keep it running.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2023, 12:34:12 PM »
The 78 prefer exhaust back pressure and i bet its pd carbs and they are blocked

+1
The exhaust change you made will lean-out your carb. mixture quite a bit and cause it to starve for fuel.
I would also check the spark plugs because running the choke will foul the plugs also.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2023, 01:01:20 PM »
This engine-carb setup will barely make power if the choke is on. You'll have to troubleshoot further to get it to a smooth idle, which will be around 1150-1200 RPM when it is 'right'. Then it will most certainly pull away from a stop well.

Those PD carbs also have an accelerator pump. If it sat all those years, the diaphragm in that pump is hard now and needs to be replaced. Reason: the PD carbs are 'lean burn' carbs, calibrated for lower emissions form the engine, so pulling away from a stop or suddenly opening the throttle requires an extra squirt of gas. This comes up in those little brass tubes at the back of the carb, and the pump itself is on carb#2. You can get new diaphragms from PartsNmore.com.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2023, 01:15:08 PM »
Hey guys, which carb on the CV set do you use to sync the other 3 from?
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline nateweisiger02

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2023, 01:36:21 PM »
Thank you for all the responses!! By “pulling its own weight”, I mean that when I put the bike in first, it doesn’t even have enough power to move. If I am not giving it any throttle at all, it will try to bog down, but anything more than that it will rev as high as I let it, but doesn’t move. I replaced the rings, gaskets, and valves when doing the partial rebuild. Didn’t cut or lap the valve seats so I just readjusted them, they were just a little off. Now they are set. When I rebuilt the carb, it came with a new diaphragm. Although, I cleaned the carb since then so I’ll check to make sure no cleaner messed it up. As for the choke, do I just keep turning the mixture screws out slightly to richen the mixture until the bike can run without the choke on?

Offline nateweisiger02

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2023, 01:39:17 PM »
Hey guys, which carb on the CV set do you use to sync the other 3 from?

You use the second carb, then turn the screws on 1,3, and 4 to match. so believe it is the second for most, at least it was for mine.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2023, 01:51:07 PM »
Hey guys, which carb on the CV set do you use to sync the other 3 from?

You use the second carb, then turn the screws on 1,3, and 4 to match. so believe it is the second for most, at least it was for mine.

#2
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2023, 01:53:12 PM »
Thank you for all the responses!! By “pulling its own weight”, I mean that when I put the bike in first, it doesn’t even have enough power to move. If I am not giving it any throttle at all, it will try to bog down, but anything more than that it will rev as high as I let it, but doesn’t move. I replaced the rings, gaskets, and valves when doing the partial rebuild. Didn’t cut or lap the valve seats so I just readjusted them, they were just a little off. Now they are set. When I rebuilt the carb, it came with a new diaphragm. Although, I cleaned the carb since then so I’ll check to make sure no cleaner messed it up. As for the choke, do I just keep turning the mixture screws out slightly to richen the mixture until the bike can run without the choke on?

You didn't have the new valves and seats ground to seal together ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline nateweisiger02

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2023, 02:52:34 PM »
Correct, the new valves sit fine to the eye and nothing leaked through them after doing a test, but after a few miles, the valves had a little tighter clearance. So I suspected that was the reason. Still nothing that I think would affect it having no power.

Offline nateweisiger02

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2023, 03:38:38 PM »
Update, will run with choke off, but same issue. Didn’t really change much.

Offline nateweisiger02

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2023, 03:41:38 PM »
Sounds a lot like the clutch is not engaging to me…

That could be it! I know I took the clutch off to split the engine, and put it on just as I took pictures. But that is something that I haven’t even checked yet.

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2023, 03:43:35 PM »
Sounds a lot like the clutch is not engaging to me…

+1

If the bike won't move when revved in gear then it's likely the clutch. The initial clutch lifter setting can be tricky and it's easy to overtighten the lifter rod to the point that the clutch will not engage.
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

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Offline nateweisiger02

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2023, 03:45:05 PM »
Sounds a lot like the clutch is not engaging to me…

But when I have it in neutral, I pull the clutch in and put it in first, then the neutral light turns off. So it has to be in gear right?

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2023, 03:49:40 PM »
Sounds a lot like the clutch is not engaging to me…

But when I have it in neutral, I pull the clutch in and put it in first, then the neutral light turns off. So it has to be in gear right?

With the transmission in gear the bike will not move without clutch engagement. Sounds like there is something wrong with the clutch assembly, either improper assembly and/or adjustment.
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline nateweisiger02

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2023, 05:16:01 PM »
Sounds a lot like the clutch is not engaging to me…

+1

If the bike won't move when revved in gear then it's likely the clutch. The initial clutch lifter setting can be tricky and it's easy to overtighten the lifter rod to the point that the clutch will not engage.

Awesome, thank you for the input!! What torque should the lifter rod be tightened down to?

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2023, 05:38:33 PM »
Sounds a lot like the clutch is not engaging to me…

+1

If the bike won't move when revved in gear then it's likely the clutch. The initial clutch lifter setting can be tricky and it's easy to overtighten the lifter rod to the point that the clutch will not engage.

Awesome, thank you for the input!! What torque should the lifter rod be tightened down to?

The lifter should be adjusted with the screw in the center of the lifter's hold-down nut. As you turn it, you will feel it go 'slack' one way, and 'tighten up' the other. So, for starters you turn it until you can feel it being 'slack', then back the other way until it 'feels' the clutch, then back off 1/4 turn from there and retighten the locknut.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2023, 06:50:30 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline nateweisiger02

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2023, 01:27:16 PM »
Sounds a lot like the clutch is not engaging to me…

+1

If the bike won't move when revved in gear then it's likely the clutch. The initial clutch lifter setting can be tricky and it's easy to overtighten the lifter rod to the point that the clutch will not engage.

Awesome, thank you for the input!! What torque should the lifter rod be tightened down to?

The lifter should be adjusted with the screw in the center of the lifter's hold-down nut. As you turn it, you will feel it go 'slack' one way, and 'tighten up' the other. So, for starters you turn it until you can feel it being 'slack', then back the other way until it 'feels' the clutch, then back of 1/4 turn from there and retighten the locknut.

Update: That was it!! Adjusted the clutch like you said and the bike went into gear no problem. For anyone else that is having this problem. The bike would be in neutral and seem like it went into gear, as the nuestras light went off, but would not choke off when the clutch was all the way out in gear, and would sit there and rev but not move mitch at all. Thank you to all that contributed!!

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2023, 05:13:28 PM »
Good news indeed!  8)
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline Shtonecb500

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Re: Bike not pulling its own weight
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2023, 06:58:19 PM »
so it was just bad clutch adjustment, easy fix, good news, ride on.
73/74'' CB500/550 resto-mod - sold
75' 750f 91' cbr f2 swap cafe - mock up
74' 750 chopper hardtail - complete - sold
74' CB750/836kit - Black mix & match - daily rider - always tweaking
71' cb500 K0 survivor - complete
71' K1 - CANDY GOLD/BROWN Winton kit - in process