Author Topic: Does this sound right?  (Read 907 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline samfig

  • Sr. Fig
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 154
Does this sound right?
« on: July 08, 2023, 09:14:56 AM »
Hello, friends!

The fine folk at Hoy Vintage Cycle near Indianapolis rebuilt my engine and gave me instructions to do some checks / maintenance after the first 100 miles.  Well ... I have ridden about 350 miles since the rebuild and have just changed the spark plugs, checked the valve clearance and adjusted the cam chain tensioner.  Most of the valves were within specification but I did adjust a few of them.  Having never adjusted the valve clearance or cam chain before, I was wondering how you all thought the engine "sounds" and if there is anything from this clip that can inform me on how the engine is running.  So, what do you all hear?  Does anything sound "off" and what might that be? Any feedback or guidance is greatly appreciated.

-1973 CB750

Offline denward17

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,447
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2023, 09:45:50 AM »
Sounds fine to me, but I'm no expert.  My K8 sounds about the same, but with more clutch basket noise.

Is your idle set that high for a reason?

Offline Tracksnblades1

  • My Son was a collegiate competition Trap, Skeet, and sporting Clay
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,890
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2023, 10:18:57 AM »
Might be be easier to tell how it idles at 1000 rpm…

Are all four exhaust pipes equally hot on start up ?

Great looking survivor…
Age Quod Agis

Offline seanbarney41

  • not really that much younger than an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,879
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2023, 11:55:17 AM »
Sounds great!  Hoy was a member here at one time.  Seemed to know what he was doing.  Don't remember his screen name.  Yeah, idle is a little high, but better too high than too low with these for the sake of valve train oiling.
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline samfig

  • Sr. Fig
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 154
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2023, 06:44:40 AM »
Might be be easier to tell how it idles at 1000 rpm…

Are all four exhaust pipes equally hot on start up ?

Great looking survivor…

The bike truly is beautiful, so thanks.  As for the idle speed, it generally rests around 1,200 and I don't think that over the last 10 years of owning it it has ever idled at 900.  When I fiddle with the thumb screw it ends up just slowly dying.  As for the exhaust, I checked for back pressure on each pipe and they each seemed about equally as forceful. 

Should I be concerned about engine damage with the fast idle?
-1973 CB750

Offline willbird

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,049
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2023, 07:15:39 AM »
I sure would not throw 350 mile plugs away ;-).

Offline MauiK3

  • A K3 is saved
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,357
  • Old guy
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2023, 08:05:06 AM »
I know the goal is a 900 rpm idle but I have not seen many, if any, that will stay at idle at 900. It seem 1000 or bit more is more doable.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,096
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2023, 08:13:02 AM »
Even when new we settled for 1100 in the workshop at service
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline WideAWAKE

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 401
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2023, 08:35:59 AM »
I know the goal is a 900 rpm idle but I have not seen many, if any, that will stay at idle at 900. It seem 1000 or bit more is more doable.

I only have experience with my K0 (and seeing video of other bikes on line) but I can’t get an idle at 900 to save my life haha. 1100 purrs like a kitten, never skips a beat and runs like a champ. Anything under and it’s a chugga chugga slow death.

All my other 70s bikes are about the same. 1000-1200 seems to be a nice sweet spot.


Offline Tracksnblades1

  • My Son was a collegiate competition Trap, Skeet, and sporting Clay
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,890
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2023, 08:31:10 PM »
Might be be easier to tell how it idles at 1000 rpm…

Are all four exhaust pipes equally hot on start up ?

Great looking survivor…

The bike truly is beautiful, so thanks.  As for the idle speed, it generally rests around 1,200 and I don't think that over the last 10 years of owning it it has ever idled at 900.  When I fiddle with the thumb screw it ends up just slowly dying.  As for the exhaust, I checked for back pressure on each pipe and they each seemed about equally as forceful. 

Should I be concerned about engine damage with the fast idle?

I’m good with the fast idle if you are…

You wrote you never adjusted valve clearances before…or cam chain tension….and your engine was rebuilt by another..

My query, (since adjusting valves for the first with a .002 and .003 feeler gauge and then  though a small hole as well as correctly indexing all the valves on or near the base circle for the first time can be a challenge) was based off of the high idle rpm.

Sometimes using such very thin feeler gauges and through a small hole can be a chore. Some have inadvertently lashed these motors on the tight side or at the wrong position and held a valve off the seat a little. Sometimes requiring a higher idle rpm to compensate due to that cylinder’s or cylinders’ idle affected vacuum by a tight valve.

The same reason I asked if the four pipes all heated up at the same time (not the back pressures). A tight intake at an idle can cause its exhaust pipe to run at a lower idle temp. Your air cleaner box is on so you can’t blip the throttle and hear a tight intake popping or spitting back through its carburetor.

Additionally, a weak spark advancer will advance at a lower than desired rpm that can cause low rpm idle stability problems.
For instance, suppose the high idle rpm is near the worn advancer’s advance rpm or worse it’s fully advanced at the high engine  idle speed. Now someone lowers  the idle rpm adjuster just a little, but it’s enough the advancer retards the timing at the same time the new idle rpm is selected.  Now since the engine died, do you readajust  your idle mixture circuit to idle at desired 1100rpm. Or do you check to see if the timing is scattering about at the high idle speed and is dropping back to static time causing it to die when one barely changes the idle screw.

Arm chair mechanicing is difficult. You don’t know the person, their experience, or goals. A well tuned and timed engine will easily idle several rpms above or below the desired set point, especially if it’s stock. Usually or sometimes a high idle is merely masking the cause of the normal idle rpm instability. But, it’s an arm chair and its IPad’s tiny tiny speakers…👍
Age Quod Agis

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,976
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2023, 06:53:00 PM »
The idle on the K3 should be between 1050 and 1150 RPM, due to the type of carbs they have. If it is much above 1250 then the bike doesn't feel like it wants to slow down when the throttle is let off at lower speeds.

The only 750s that would actually idle at the manual-noted 950 RPM were/are the Old Factory bikes (mostly K0 and early K1) with the 657a carbs, brass floats, and hole-tipped idle air screws. These had a slightly different cam from the later bikes, too. I have, by chance, installed one of those cams into a late K2 engine with the 657b carbs (plastic floats) and got it to idle well at 1000 even, but mine won't even do that: it was always 1050-1100 despite having the 657b carbs and the early K1 cam. Since I put in the K5 cam in mine in 2013 (because my original one was pretty worn down at 131k miles by then) it won't idle well below 1100, so it sits a tad higher now.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,708
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2023, 12:53:53 AM »
I like 1200rpm idle.
Make bike easier to ride in the city with all take offs and throttle offs.
Not that heavy engine brake when throttle off.

That idle when fully warm, idle when cold, choke is off will be lower and working.

Higher idle ensure oil pressure and flow too ;D

My K6 with much higher compression and Megacycle 125-75 cam can idle down to 1000rpm.

Take offs can sometimes fail unless giving more throttle and clutch slip. The compression make engine to run "harder".

My almost stock K2 also idles 1100-1200rpm for same reasons.
Its 392 style pistons crank up the compression a little.
Throttle offs in lower speeds and take offs easier.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Tracksnblades1

  • My Son was a collegiate competition Trap, Skeet, and sporting Clay
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,890
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2023, 01:36:14 PM »
I like 1200rpm idle.
Make bike easier to ride in the city with all take offs and throttle offs.
Not that heavy engine brake when throttle off.

That idle when fully warm, idle when cold, choke is off will be lower and working.

Higher idle ensure oil pressure and flow too ;D

My K6 with much higher compression and Megacycle 125-75 cam can idle down to 1000rpm.

Take offs can sometimes fail unless giving more throttle and clutch slip. The compression make engine to run "harder".

My almost stock K2 also idles 1100-1200rpm for same reasons.
Its 392 style pistons crank up the compression a little.
Throttle offs in lower speeds and take offs easier.

Try a severely lightened RC flywheel on a stocker….you’ll dance the throttle to take off two up..😜
Age Quod Agis

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,708
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2023, 10:23:23 PM »
I like 1200rpm idle.
Make bike easier to ride in the city with all take offs and throttle offs.
Not that heavy engine brake when throttle off.

That idle when fully warm, idle when cold, choke is off will be lower and working.

Higher idle ensure oil pressure and flow too ;D

My K6 with much higher compression and Megacycle 125-75 cam can idle down to 1000rpm.

Take offs can sometimes fail unless giving more throttle and clutch slip. The compression make engine to run "harder".

My almost stock K2 also idles 1100-1200rpm for same reasons.
Its 392 style pistons crank up the compression a little.
Throttle offs in lower speeds and take offs easier.

Try a severely lightened RC flywheel on a stocker….you’ll dance the throttle to take off two up..
My modified K6 has a lightened APE crank and lightened alternator, system still charging looking like the RC version back in the days.
Properly jetted and synched carbs helps. Lean carbs not fun at take offs... Way too responsive in a hysterical way ;D

My almost stock K2 has the later version of stock alternator.
1200rpm idle when fully warmed up helps direct after start giving it a working low idle.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline BenelliSEI

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,158
  • 1969 cb750
Re: Does this sound right?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2023, 04:46:40 PM »
I have found that on a “fresh motor”, sync’ing the carbs after 4-500 miles is required. It always seems to need some adjustment from the initial setting.