Author Topic: From Rundown & Ragged.. To A Mean, Clean & Shiny Machine - My 1977 Honda CB750 K  (Read 7538 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
This bike is amazing.

That's high praise, thank you so very much!! I glad you can appreciate it!
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
So tonight I will be making the video of me assembling the transmission, however first I wanted to post a little side note - that being the whole problem of the bearing not sitting in the countershaft bearing holder correctly.

Now I went ahead and bought a used one off a 1978 CB750K with the thought that mine was somehow too worn for spec, however that doesn't seem to be the case.

What appears to be the problem is the bearing itself. Now I ordered the correct bearing (or so I thought) - an NTN 6304, but what I see in the used one I bought from the 1978 is a KOYO. The Koyo seems to be thicker and it actually sits in the holder tightly the way its intended.

Should I just toss the NTN on the shelf and buy a new Koyo 6304?
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
Yet another oddity tonight, continuing from last night, is the parts fiche showing a thrust washer installed next to the circlip between #8 and #19, however there is absolutely no room for it, just enough room for the circlip.
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
Yeah this is starting to get really effing annoying. Even with Mark's book in front of me, it shows the entire countershaft assembly and there is absolutely no room for a thrust washer after the circlip. See my photo above. Is the thrust washer supposed to go BEFORE the circlip? If so, then the book is wrong.
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
Here is a screenshot of the exact same setup as my countershaft assembly (this is a shot from a video I watched). Notice his doesn't have a thrust washer before C2 nor after C3, just like I mentioned mine doesn't.

Mark's book shows there being thrust washers there. The parts fiche for 1977 show that as well, so what's the deal?
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,838
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Hmm...by chance, does your C3 gear have a cast-iron, flanged insert that fits into the center of the gear? If so, the flanged side of it acts as the separate toothed washer-bushing, and this side of it should be set against the circlip. This was found in some 750F3 engines.

The picture in the book was taken as I tore down a 750F0 engine (the same one shown in the "Remove Engine" chapter). In the late F2, and I have also seen in the K8, the bronze bushings and center bearings were sometimes replaced with flanged cast-iron versions, eliminating the separate bronze toothed washer.
Gammaflat knows something about that one... :(  ). In those cases, the flange of the flanged bushing sat against the circlip, instead of the separate toothed washer.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
Hmm...by chance, does your C3 gear have a cast-iron, flanged insert that fits into the center of the gear? If so, the flanged side of it acts as the separate toothed washer-bushing, and this side of it should be set against the circlip. This was found in some 750F3 engines.

The picture in the book was taken as I tore down a 750F0 engine (the same one shown in the "Remove Engine" chapter). In the late F2, and I have also seen in the K8, the bronze bushings and center bearings were sometimes replaced with flanged cast-iron versions, eliminating the separate bronze toothed washer.
Gammaflat knows something about that one... :(  ). In those cases, the flange of the flanged bushing sat against the circlip, instead of the separate toothed washer.



Okayyyy, now I'm getting somewhere! Thank you Mark!

So yes, both my C2 and C3 gears have the flanged bushing/insert.

Now the next question becomes this: does the flat side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert? Or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2023, 03:44:15 PM by Ellz10 »
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,838
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Hmm...by chance, does your C3 gear have a cast-iron, flanged insert that fits into the center of the gear? If so, the flanged side of it acts as the separate toothed washer-bushing, and this side of it should be set against the circlip. This was found in some 750F3 engines.

The picture in the book was taken as I tore down a 750F0 engine (the same one shown in the "Remove Engine" chapter). In the late F2, and I have also seen in the K8, the bronze bushings and center bearings were sometimes replaced with flanged cast-iron versions, eliminating the separate bronze toothed washer.
Gammaflat knows something about that one... :(  ). In those cases, the flange of the flanged bushing sat against the circlip, instead of the separate toothed washer.



Okayyyy, now I'm getting somewhere! Thank you Mark!

So yes, both my C2 and C3 gears have the flanged bushing/insert.

Now the next question becomes this: does the flat side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert? Or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert?

There, NOW you've got it!
The flanged side of that iron bushing takes the place of the bronze toothed washer, so flip that one 'round and you should be on your way!
I would estimate that to be a K8 gearbox.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
Hmm...by chance, does your C3 gear have a cast-iron, flanged insert that fits into the center of the gear? If so, the flanged side of it acts as the separate toothed washer-bushing, and this side of it should be set against the circlip. This was found in some 750F3 engines.

The picture in the book was taken as I tore down a 750F0 engine (the same one shown in the "Remove Engine" chapter). In the late F2, and I have also seen in the K8, the bronze bushings and center bearings were sometimes replaced with flanged cast-iron versions, eliminating the separate bronze toothed washer.
Gammaflat knows something about that one... :(  ). In those cases, the flange of the flanged bushing sat against the circlip, instead of the separate toothed washer.



Okayyyy, now I'm getting somewhere! Thank you Mark!

So yes, both my C2 and C3 gears have the flanged bushing/insert.

Now the next question becomes this: does the flat side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert? Or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert?

There, NOW you've got it!
The flanged side of that iron bushing takes the place of the bronze toothed washer, so flip that one 'round and you should be on your way!
I would estimate that to be a K8 gearbox.

Ugh, Mark you didn't answer the question I need the answer to!

I need to know about the circlip.

Does the flat side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert? Or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert?
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,838
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Hmm...by chance, does your C3 gear have a cast-iron, flanged insert that fits into the center of the gear? If so, the flanged side of it acts as the separate toothed washer-bushing, and this side of it should be set against the circlip. This was found in some 750F3 engines.

The picture in the book was taken as I tore down a 750F0 engine (the same one shown in the "Remove Engine" chapter). In the late F2, and I have also seen in the K8, the bronze bushings and center bearings were sometimes replaced with flanged cast-iron versions, eliminating the separate bronze toothed washer.
Gammaflat knows something about that one... :(  ). In those cases, the flange of the flanged bushing sat against the circlip, instead of the separate toothed washer.



Okayyyy, now I'm getting somewhere! Thank you Mark!

So yes, both my C2 and C3 gears have the flanged bushing/insert.

Now the next question becomes this: does the flat side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert? Or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert?

There, NOW you've got it!
The flanged side of that iron bushing takes the place of the bronze toothed washer, so flip that one 'round and you should be on your way!
I would estimate that to be a K8 gearbox.

Ugh, Mark you didn't answer the question I need the answer to!

I need to know about the circlip.

Does the flat side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert? Or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert?

Chamfered side to the bushing, absolutely! The 'straight' side of it does not let oil leak in between this clip's face and the bushing, which is needed to help keep the clip cooler than the bushing so it won't try to 'climb' or warp, and move.

You'll note that the gear next to it on the clip's side (C2) stops about 2mm away from the clip when the shift fork moves it in that direction, too.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2023, 10:11:16 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
Hmm...by chance, does your C3 gear have a cast-iron, flanged insert that fits into the center of the gear? If so, the flanged side of it acts as the separate toothed washer-bushing, and this side of it should be set against the circlip. This was found in some 750F3 engines.

The picture in the book was taken as I tore down a 750F0 engine (the same one shown in the "Remove Engine" chapter). In the late F2, and I have also seen in the K8, the bronze bushings and center bearings were sometimes replaced with flanged cast-iron versions, eliminating the separate bronze toothed washer.
Gammaflat knows something about that one... :(  ). In those cases, the flange of the flanged bushing sat against the circlip, instead of the separate toothed washer.



Okayyyy, now I'm getting somewhere! Thank you Mark!

So yes, both my C2 and C3 gears have the flanged bushing/insert.

Now the next question becomes this: does the flat side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert? Or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert?

There, NOW you've got it!
The flanged side of that iron bushing takes the place of the bronze toothed washer, so flip that one 'round and you should be on your way!
I would estimate that to be a K8 gearbox.

Ugh, Mark you didn't answer the question I need the answer to!

I need to know about the circlip.

Does the flat side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert? Or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert?

Chamfered side to the bushing, absolutely! The 'straight' side of it does not let oil leak in between this clip's face and the bushing, which is needed to help keep the clip cooler than the bushing so it won't try to 'climb' or warp, and move.

You'll note that the gear next to it on the clip's side (C2) stops about 2mm away from the clip when the shift fork moves it in that direction, too.

Awesome thank you! Exactly what I needed to hear, because my thoughts were to install it the exact opposite!

My next question...

The circlip that comes after C4 (going towards C1), what is the orientation for that circlip? Does the flat side of the circlip point towards C4 or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards C4?

Same goes for the thrust washer - does the flat side point towards C4 or does the chamfered side point towards C4?
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,838
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Hmm...by chance, does your C3 gear have a cast-iron, flanged insert that fits into the center of the gear? If so, the flanged side of it acts as the separate toothed washer-bushing, and this side of it should be set against the circlip. This was found in some 750F3 engines.

The picture in the book was taken as I tore down a 750F0 engine (the same one shown in the "Remove Engine" chapter). In the late F2, and I have also seen in the K8, the bronze bushings and center bearings were sometimes replaced with flanged cast-iron versions, eliminating the separate bronze toothed washer.
Gammaflat knows something about that one... :(  ). In those cases, the flange of the flanged bushing sat against the circlip, instead of the separate toothed washer.



Okayyyy, now I'm getting somewhere! Thank you Mark!

So yes, both my C2 and C3 gears have the flanged bushing/insert.

Now the next question becomes this: does the flat side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert? Or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert?

There, NOW you've got it!
The flanged side of that iron bushing takes the place of the bronze toothed washer, so flip that one 'round and you should be on your way!
I would estimate that to be a K8 gearbox.

Ugh, Mark you didn't answer the question I need the answer to!

I need to know about the circlip.

Does the flat side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert? Or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards the flange of that insert?

Chamfered side to the bushing, absolutely! The 'straight' side of it does not let oil leak in between this clip's face and the bushing, which is needed to help keep the clip cooler than the bushing so it won't try to 'climb' or warp, and move.

You'll note that the gear next to it on the clip's side (C2) stops about 2mm away from the clip when the shift fork moves it in that direction, too.

Awesome thank you! Exactly what I needed to hear, because my thoughts were to install it the exact opposite!

My next question...

The circlip that comes after C4 (going towards C1), what is the orientation for that circlip? Does the flat side of the circlip point towards C4 or does the chamfered side of the circlip point towards C4?

Same goes for the thrust washer - does the flat side point towards C4 or does the chamfered side point towards C4?

For this one: the chamfered (rounded) side of the clip goes toward the thrust washer, because it can wiggle a bit when the gear next to it is spinning and a shift to it occurs. When you get this shaft back into the crankcase and the forks engaged you'll find that the sliding C4 doesn't quite press up against this clip when in actual use, or if it does, just barely. Since it can't rotate, it doesn't pose any troubles like trying to 'unwind' the clip out of the groove.

The rounded side of that bronze thrust washer should go toward the C1 gear/bushing here, because the bushing in this gear is smaller diameter than the thrust washer - plus, they wiggle against each other some. The 'philosophy' here is: (after 200,000 miles or so, maybe?) that thrust washer might gall against the bushing inside the gear if the flat side was there, so a trifle more oil will work its way into that joint if the rounded side is pressed up against it.

The caveat here, in the later engines, is: this bushing was often made of cast iron, or included into the C1's inner bushing as a flanged bushing when it was made from cast iron (I have seen it both ways), so then the oil (and rounded side) needed to be in between the circlip and the bushing face, lest it friction-weld itself to the clip over time (only a long roadrace could accomplish it, but Honda was uber-conservative in those days). I know of just one guy (in Colorado)_ who worried enough about this with his 750F2 racer that he hand-lapped both sides of both the circlip and the (in his) cast-iron thrust washer for 'better oiling'. After we talked about it, he just bought bronze bushing and thrust washer and replaced them, instead - the bronze is a MUCH better bearing on steel, especially at speed. The switch to cast iron was done to save a few Yen to help keep the cost of the 750 competitive at the time.

But, all this said and worried about: sometimes these got assembled wrong at Honda! I've seen it in several engines that came to me: our own member Gammaflat had this happen in his (K6, I think it is), and it lifted the clip out of the groove for the C2 gear(!).
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
Thank you Mark!!!!



Probably a stupid question, but I should definitely be using assembly lube when assembling both the mainshaft and countershaft, right?
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,838
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Thank you Mark!!!!



Probably a stupid question, but I should definitely be using assembly lube when assembling both the mainshaft and countershaft, right?

Better yet: dunk them in oil. I dunk the whole countershaft and spin those gears that will spin. Then I let it drain a while (so I don't mess up my floor, mostly!) and put it back into the crankcase.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
Will definitely be doing that, thanks once again Mark!!


On a separate note, I just noticed this tonight. Somehow the gears were able to chew up a little bit of the inside of the case and it appears to have caused a very small hairline ripple/crack on the outside of the case as well.

Should I have it welded to be safe or let it be as it is?
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,033
  • I refuse...
Yes, that needs to be repaired else it will leak oil heavily.

It won’t be fun. And whomever welds it needs to make a jig to bolt the case to for dead perfect alignment when mating the case halves. I’d take a 3/8” piece of aluminum and drill and tap holes through it the case could bolt to. (Imagine a plate that was sandwiched between the halves. Then bolt the repair side to it, then weld it up. Leave it bolted while it cools.

And for welding cat aluminum, have them use 4047 filler. Works best.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
Yes, that needs to be repaired else it will leak oil heavily.

It won’t be fun. And whomever welds it needs to make a jig to bolt the case to for dead perfect alignment when mating the case halves. I’d take a 3/8” piece of aluminum and drill and tap holes through it the case could bolt to. (Imagine a plate that was sandwiched between the halves. Then bolt the repair side to it, then weld it up. Leave it bolted while it cools.

And for welding cat aluminum, have them use 4047 filler. Works best.

Well this sucks. Better that I noticed it though - saves me from having to tear it all back down once again.

I'll take it to the weld shop here and explain what you said and then just hope that they adhere to it and don't mess it up.

Thank you Cal.
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,033
  • I refuse...
If you do take it to a shop to be welded, be absolutely certain you don’t clean the cases with anything that has chlorine in it (like Brake Cleaner, Degreasers, etc). Only use Acetone or known non -chlorinated cleaners. The presence of chlorine can kill when welding occurs.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,274
  • Humboldt, AZ
Will definitely be doing that, thanks once again Mark!!


On a separate note, I just noticed this tonight. Somehow the gears were able to chew up a little bit of the inside of the case and it appears to have caused a very small hairline ripple/crack on the outside of the case as well.

Should I have it welded to be safe or let it be as it is?
That looks like a big #$%*ing crack in the pic!!?? The misplaced snap-ring on the undercut trans caused a lot of damage to the case as well as the broken gear teeth when it jammed up. I would not recommend just welding up the leaks, or expecting a welder to try to pull the case back into alignment, I would replace the crankcase. The vendor that sold you the trans is at fault for all the damage, IMHO. >:(
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
If you do take it to a shop to be welded, be absolutely certain you don’t clean the cases with anything that has chlorine in it (like Brake Cleaner, Degreasers, etc). Only use Acetone or known non -chlorinated cleaners. The presence of chlorine can kill when welding occurs.

I'll be sure to stick with acetone, thank you!

Will definitely be doing that, thanks once again Mark!!


On a separate note, I just noticed this tonight. Somehow the gears were able to chew up a little bit of the inside of the case and it appears to have caused a very small hairline ripple/crack on the outside of the case as well.

Should I have it welded to be safe or let it be as it is?
That looks like a big #$%*ing crack in the pic!!?? The misplaced snap-ring on the undercut trans caused a lot of damage to the case as well as the broken gear teeth when it jammed up. I would not recommend just welding up the leaks, or expecting a welder to try to pull the case back into alignment, I would replace the crankcase. The vendor that sold you the trans is at fault for all the damage, IMHO. >:(

The crack is a little less than 3/8". Yeah I never expected it to cause this much damage.

Fortunately there weren't any leaks while it was running, nor are the cases out of alignment, thank goodness! So long as the heat from the welding doesn't cause the metal to pull or shrink, I should be alright.

I would absolutely hate to have to buy a new case and then spend even more money boring to 65mm, line lapping the cases, ect.

I'm quite literally tapped of all the money I had saved to do this build and then some extra that the wife doesn't know about.
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,274
  • Humboldt, AZ

Fortunately there weren't any leaks while it was running, nor are the cases out of alignment, thank goodness! So long as the heat from the welding doesn't cause the metal to pull or shrink, I should be alright.
The case has already been distorted out of shape. Your bearings don't fit anymore.

I would absolutely hate to have to buy a new case and then spend even more money boring to 65mm, line lapping the cases, ect.
The case doesn't get bored to 65mm, only the cylinders. What are you talking about when you say "line lapping the cases"??

I'm quite literally tapped of all the money I had saved to do this build and then some extra that the wife doesn't know about.
In my opinion, you paid someone big money for sub-standard work that has caused all this damage. He should make this right. >:(
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,137
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Will definitely be doing that, thanks once again Mark!!


On a separate note, I just noticed this tonight. Somehow the gears were able to chew up a little bit of the inside of the case and it appears to have caused a very small hairline ripple/crack on the outside of the case as well.

Should I have it welded to be safe or let it be as it is?
That looks like a big #$%*ing crack in the pic!!?? The misplaced snap-ring on the undercut trans caused a lot of damage to the case as well as the broken gear teeth when it jammed up. I would not recommend just welding up the leaks, or expecting a welder to try to pull the case back into alignment, I would replace the crankcase. The vendor that sold you the trans is at fault for all the damage, IMHO. >:(

+1 on replacing the cases
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,033
  • I refuse...
Can you post some different pics of the cases? Those were either too close-up or not enough perspective to appreciate the size of the crack.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Ellz10

  • ZZ
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • Knowledge is Power
Can you post some different pics of the cases? Those were either too close-up or not enough perspective to appreciate the size of the crack.

Hope these help. The outside crack is quite small and the inside one is more of a deep gouge.

Scott - the only bearing that wasn't fitting ended up being the problem of a worn out countershaft bearing holder. I got a new bearing and new bearing holder and it fits perfectly now!

But I do agree with you to the point of who should be liable, alas he's already stated he's not willing to accept responsibility for it and that's all there is to it unfortunately. Lesson learned for me insofar that I will always inspect someone else's work before installing it into anything I'm personally working on. Expensive lesson learned.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2023, 02:50:20 PM by Ellz10 »
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



'77 K7 - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193043.msg2251436/topicseen.html#new

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,033
  • I refuse...
If that is the only "through" crack, then welding it up will be fine. The "internal gouge" if not part of the same crack, just needs to be gently filed down so as to eliminate any swarf that might come loose later.

If the internal gouge is part of the crack, then they will grind it out with a carbide burr, do the same to the outside (creating a deeper crevise to get weld filler into) and weld it up. Not a bad repair at all. Chuck it in the mail to me, and I'll have it back to you the next day. It's that simple.

And it does not appear that any case misalignment will be present. So you're good to repair it and get it back assembled and running. Fall weather coming soon...
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis