Topic: Good time to run seafoam?

[csmadore]

Hello all,
This is my first post here on the forum. I'll try to keep it brief.

My 74 CB550 has a worn clutch that I will be repairing/replacing this weekend. It also (as evidenced by slow oil loss and the testimony of fellow riders down wind) is burning some oil. Not a ton but not a little - maybe a quart over 400 miles.

My question is this: since I'm getting into the clutch anyway and so am not concerned about causing it to slip by adding the seafoam, would this be a good time to give it a good try to clean up any valve seal issues that might be contributing to my oil loss? I'm planning on taking the top end apart this winter regardless, but I figured I'd try and do what I can to motivate the problem for the balance of the riding season. I'm planning several long rides with other riders and I'd love for them to be able to smell the sweet Maine air and not just my oily exhaust, if possible.

Many thanks, in advance, for all your input.

[bryanj]

A quart in 400 miles is a massive amount for a honda maximum use for me would be a pint every 6000.
It could be bad stem seals and/or bad rings/bore asuming there is no puddle when parked

[csmadore]

There are no leaks. And compression is ok but not great - 125 psi, give or take.

[Don R]

 It will probably do no harm. Be sure to follow the directions, a mechanic friend told a guy to add 4 cap fulls and he used 4 can fulls. Yup, it killed the motor.

[bryanj]

In that case you need to take it apart to find out why

[csmadore]

Yes that is my plan for the winter. Just trying to improve the situation for summer riding. Motor sounds good and has good oil pressure, so I'm predicting that it will be valve seals.

[calj737]

Seafoam is a fuel additive, not an oil additive. So introducing it to your gas won't affect the clutch, nor will it likely address an oil burning. It is possible that some of you oil burning is related the piston rings, and if they are indeed crudded up, then Seafoam won't hurt a bit.

Oil additives should be avoided (unless it's a zinc-based product) unless they are specifically designed for wet clutch bikes. Before you tear into the clutch, you should do a thorough 3,000 Maintenance regimen on the bike, including lubricating the clutch cable (or replacing it) and adjusting the lifter nut. You'd be surprised how well a 50 year old motorcycle responds to some competent TLC.

[Stev-o]

It will probably do no harm...

...or any good! 

Personally, I dont believe in "miracle cures" especially if you have a mechanical issue.  How many miles on the bike and what type of oil are you using?  If you are burning that much oil, may be time for a re-ring, not just a valve job.

[csmadore]

It will probably do no harm...

...or any good! 

Personally, I dont believe in "miracle cures" especially if you have a mechanical issue.  How many miles on the bike and what type of oil are you using?  If you are burning that much oil, may be time for a re-ring, not just a valve job.

I'm using Pennzoil 10w-40.

[calj737]

To yourr oil burning issue, valve seal leaks present mostly at start-up or at "take-off". If you are riding and the companions downwind are noticing oil burning, I'd look at the rings. Now would also be a good time to look at your plugs to see if they are oil-soaked.

[csmadore]

Seafoam is a fuel additive, not an oil additive. So introducing it to your gas won't affect the clutch, nor will it likely address an oil burning. It is possible that some of you oil burning is related the piston rings, and if they are indeed crudded up, then Seafoam won't hurt a bit.

Oil additives should be avoided (unless it's a zinc-based product) unless they are specifically designed for wet clutch bikes. Before you tear into the clutch, you should do a thorough 3,000 Maintenance regimen on the bike, including lubricating the clutch cable (or replacing it) and adjusting the lifter nut. You'd be surprised how well a 50 year old motorcycle responds to some competent TLC.

Yes I'm asking for feedback about adding seafoam to the crankcase shortly before changing the oil, same as you could on a car or truck. The idea being that the seafoam would loosen up any deposits around lifters/valve seals that might be causal or contributing factors to the oil burning situation. And yes, I've checked and adjusted the clutch adjuster nut as well as the cable. It shifts fine. It just slips in third and fourth mostly, and only when I really lay into the throttle.

[csmadore]

To yourr oil burning issue, valve seal leaks present mostly at start-up or at "take-off". If you are riding and the companions downwind are noticing oil burning, I'd look at the rings. Now would also be a good time to look at your plugs to see if they are oil-soaked.

Thank you, that makes sense. The plugs aren't horrible, to be honest. Black but not crudded up.

I just bought this bike a couple months ago, so this is my first time through it. Previous owner had it serviced at Madhouse Motors in Boston, and paid a pretty penny for that work too. Nowhere in the service records is there any mention of oil consumption. I'm not bummed about it though- half my reason for buying this bike in the first place was to get skilled at motorcycle repair. I'm looking forward to it.

[bryanj]

Seafoam works better in car engines, the valve opperation in the Honda sohc is very different and seafoam wont help

[calj737]

Seafoam works better in car engines, the valve opperation in the Honda sohc is very different and seafoam wont help

Please do explain this...?

[csmadore]

Seafoam works better in car engines, the valve opperation in the Honda sohc is very different and seafoam wont help

This was the heart of my question. Because I have no real experience with Honda motorcycle engines at this point - just Chevy small blocks.

Can you shed some light on why sea foam won't clean the top end on my sohc like it would on a typical truck motor?

[scottly]

I'm using Pennzoil 10w-40.

Is that just regular auto oil, or a motorcycle specific version? You really should be using motorcycle oil suitable for use with a wet clutch.
Regarding adding Seafoam to the crankcase oil, doesn't it say it's ok to do so on the label? In the past I have used a similar product to flush out gummed-up piston rings on car engines with some success..

[csmadore]

I'm using Pennzoil 10w-40.

Is that just regular auto oil, or a motorcycle specific version? You really should be using motorcycle oil suitable for use with a wet clutch.
Regarding adding Seafoam to the crankcase oil, doesn't it say it's ok to do so on the label? In the past I have used a similar product to flush out gummed-up piston rings on car engines with some success..

Yes I'm just using plain old motor oil. Because that's what the previous owner had in there. But I'm going to call our Honda distributor here and see what they say. Doubt it will make the difference, but it couldn't hurt.

[Mark1976]

It will probably do no harm. Be sure to follow the directions, a mechanic friend told a guy to add 4 cap fulls and he used 4 can fulls. Yup, it killed the motor.

   A good ol' fashion I-talian tune up....

[grcamna2]

I'm using Pennzoil 10w-40.

Is that just regular auto oil, or a motorcycle specific version? You really should be using motorcycle oil suitable for use with a wet clutch.
Regarding adding Seafoam to the crankcase oil, doesn't it say it's ok to do so on the label? In the past I have used a similar product to flush out gummed-up piston rings on car engines with some success..

Yes I'm just using plain old motor oil. Because that's what the previous owner had in there. But I'm going to call our Honda distributor here and see what they say. Doubt it will make the difference, but it couldn't hurt.

I make sure to get engine/trans oil in my Honda motorcycle that has the correct additives for wet clutch and transmission.
I use Shell Rotella T4 15/40 truck oil because it has the 'Jaso MA/MA-2' which are the additives it needs.
I also use Valvoline 10/40 motorcycle oil in the Winter and it has these same additives.
The automobile specific oils have 'friction modifiers' and they will certainly soak into your new clutch plates and cause more slippage.

[Tracksnblades1]

I'm using Pennzoil 10w-40.

Is that just regular auto oil, or a motorcycle specific version? You really should be using motorcycle oil suitable for use with a wet clutch.
Regarding adding Seafoam to the crankcase oil, doesn't it say it's ok to do so on the label? In the past I have used a similar product to flush out gummed-up piston rings on car engines with some success..

Yes I'm just using plain old motor oil. Because that's what the previous owner had in there. But I'm going to call our Honda distributor here and see what they say. Doubt it will make the difference, but it couldn't hurt.

I make sure to get engine/trans oil in my Honda motorcycle that has the correct additives for wet clutch and transmission.
I use Shell Rotella T4 15/40 truck oil because it has the 'Jaso MA/MA-2' which are the additives it needs.
I also use Valvoline 10/40 motorcycle oil in the Winter and it has these same additives.
The automobile specific oils have 'friction modifiers' and they will certainly soak into your new clutch plates and cause more slippage.

+1 on the Rotella T. It’ll scrub the oil ring lands up to if it’s been sitting long..

A lot of 750’s still run 20w-50 oils in the summer. Vavoline and Castrol both have an offering that have very high load bearing capabilities, as compared to othe 20w-50s..

Not sure what weight the 550 owners run in the summertime…😇

[Stev-o]

I'm using Pennzoil 10w-40.

Is that just regular auto oil, or a motorcycle specific version? You really should be using motorcycle oil suitable for use with a wet clutch.
Regarding adding Seafoam to the crankcase oil, doesn't it say it's ok to do so on the label? In the past I have used a similar product to flush out gummed-up piston rings on car engines with some success..

Yes I'm just using plain old motor oil. Because that's what the previous owner had in there. But I'm going to call our Honda distributor here and see what they say. Doubt it will make the difference, but it couldn't hurt.

I make sure to get engine/trans oil in my Honda motorcycle that has the correct additives for wet clutch and transmission.
I use Shell Rotella T4 15/40 truck oil because it has the 'Jaso MA/MA-2' which are the additives it needs.
I also use Valvoline 10/40 motorcycle oil in the Winter and it has these same additives.
The automobile specific oils have 'friction modifiers' and they will certainly soak into your new clutch plates and cause more slippage.

+1 on the Rotella T.

+1 on the Rotella T diesel oil.     

I have an old SBC [1970] and these motors need oil w/zinc so the cams dont wear out prematurely.

[bryanj]

Seafoam does well on cleaning out hydraulic lifters and such but honda sohc have a rocker arm running direct on cam and opening valve by pivot, no pushrods, no followers, no cam buckets etc

[csmadore]

Hello all,
This is my first post here on the forum. I'll try to keep it brief.

My 74 CB550 has a worn clutch that I will be repairing/replacing this weekend. It also (as evidenced by slow oil loss and the testimony of fellow riders down wind) is burning some oil. Not a ton but not a little - maybe a quart over 400 miles.

My question is this: since I'm getting into the clutch anyway and so am not concerned about causing it to slip by adding the seafoam, would this be a good time to give it a good try to clean up any valve seal issues that might be contributing to my oil loss? I'm planning on taking the top end apart this winter regardless, but I figured I'd try and do what I can to motivate the problem for the balance of the riding season. I'm planning several long rides with other riders and I'd love for them to be able to smell the sweet Maine air and not just my oily exhaust, if possible.

Many thanks, in advance, for all your input.

I just wanted to correct something I said in my original post: I went back and measured the oil I drained from my crankcase, and realized i had forgotten to include the oil I lost when my son had dropped the bike and ruptured the oil pressure gauge line the night before. This was the original reason for my changing the oil. So I'd say I had only burned about a half a quart over the 4-500 miles. Still not good obviously, but about half as much as a said earlier.

I'm going to put a motorcycle-specific oil in and see what that improves. I think I'm going to try the Castrol 20w-50. 

[grcamna2]

Hello all,
This is my first post here on the forum. I'll try to keep it brief.

My 74 CB550 has a worn clutch that I will be repairing/replacing this weekend. It also (as evidenced by slow oil loss and the testimony of fellow riders down wind) is burning some oil. Not a ton but not a little - maybe a quart over 400 miles.

My question is this: since I'm getting into the clutch anyway and so am not concerned about causing it to slip by adding the seafoam, would this be a good time to give it a good try to clean up any valve seal issues that might be contributing to my oil loss? I'm planning on taking the top end apart this winter regardless, but I figured I'd try and do what I can to motivate the problem for the balance of the riding season. I'm planning several long rides with other riders and I'd love for them to be able to smell the sweet Maine air and not just my oily exhaust, if possible.

Many thanks, in advance, for all your input.

I just wanted to correct something I said in my original post: I went back and measured the oil I drained from my crankcase, and realized i had forgotten to include the oil I lost when my son had dropped the bike and ruptured the oil pressure gauge line the night before. This was the original reason for my changing the oil. So I'd say I had only burned about a half a quart over the 4-500 miles. Still not good obviously, but about half as much as a said earlier.

I'm going to put a motorcycle-specific oil in and see what that improves. I think I'm going to try the Castrol 20w-50.

When you shop for the oil,look for the JASO MA/MA-2 in the additive section on back.

[BenelliSEI]

Good plan to try Castrol motorcycle oil, 20-50W. You might be surprised how you consumption improves. Also, checking compression with an automotive compression tester will give low results. Try one designed for small pistons/ bores. Afterwards, shoot a little oil in the cylinder ( teaspoon). If the result improves dramatically, plan the top end rebuild.

[csmadore]

Good plan to try Castrol motorcycle oil, 20-50W. You might be surprised how you consumption improves. Also, checking compression with an automotive compression tester will give low results. Try one designed for small pistons/ bores. Afterwards, shoot a little oil in the cylinder ( teaspoon). If the result improves dramatically, plan the top end rebuild.

Thank you! I'll report back.

[calj737]

Seafoam does well on cleaning out hydraulic lifters and such but honda sohc have a rocker arm running direct on cam and opening valve by pivot, no pushrods, no followers, no cam buckets etc

Well if you’re using SeaFoam as an oil additive, it will certainly work its way through the entire circulation system of the oil and “unclog” rings, restrictors, lubricate the seals and so on. Seems immaterial that it’s being used in an SOHC, DOHC, pushrod or modern valve train motor.

[newday777]

Welcome aboard csmadore from southern NH! Where in Maine are you? I lived in E. Eddington as a young kid in the early 60s while dad was the service manager at the Bangor Sears.
That Penzoil is most likely the cause of your clutch slipping. Penzoil has friction modifiers and that causes the clutch to slip in wet clutch bikes. It is fine for car motors as clutches on them are dry clutch systems but not good for wet clutch bikes.
I learned the hard way too using it in my 83 goldwing when I got back to riding in 2009 from a 25 year away from bikes. I bought the bike that had slept for 13 years or more and brought it back to life. The clutch slipped on my 1st ride.
I also learned from that asking on the goldwing forum I was on, that Seafoam and Marvel Mystery Oil both can be used to flush the crankcase of the grunge of old oil left in the motor of the bikes for years, and if done properly it will clean the clutch plates of the friction modifiers.  So I did it according to the forum advice of long time members there to put in Rotella 15w40, put in 2 qts of oil, then put in a full can of Seafoam, 16 oz, then fill the oil level to full mark with the Rotella. Go out for 1 ride, of 100-200 miles, keeping the rpms below 2,500 so you don't harm the motor works, shifting lots up and down to clean the clutch plates and circulate the oil in the clutch housing as there isn't a lot of oil flow through the  clutch area. Again, don't hammer the motor. The 100-200 miles will fully heat the motor and any grunge in it so that when you get back home, drain the oil while it's still hot so all the grunge will flow out with the oil. Change the oil and filter. Put in fresh Rotella.
Then you can ride it for another 1500 miles as normal and then change the oil and filter again. Then do normal oil changes at 3,000 miles after that. I put 26,500 miles on that wing in a year and a half with no problems, and didn't have to change the clutch in it.
I've used the Rotella in all my bikes, wings and CB750s, and also have flushed each of the old engines with Seafoam to get the old oil grunge out. I haven't bought a new bike since 1976.
For my 750 I run Honda 20w50 oil in the summer months and Rotella 15w40 in cooler months for easier starting. I usually put the bikes away mid November for the winter nap with a fresh oil change after the last hour ride to warm the bike 1st.

[scottly]

I just wanted to correct something I said in my original post: I went back and measured the oil I drained from my crankcase

I'm sorry, but you don't figure oil consumption based on what you drained. A bit of oil always stays in the case, some goes with the filter etc. You should go by the reading on the dipstick: starting from a fresh oil change with the dipstick reading full (dipstick not screwed down), check how far the level drops with mileage, and how much oil is needed over time to keep it topped up.

[csmadore]

Welcome aboard csmadore from southern NH! Where in Maine are you? I lived in E. Eddington as a young kid in the early 60s while dad was the service manager at the Bangor Sears.
That Penzoil is most likely the cause of your clutch slipping. Penzoil has friction modifiers and that causes the clutch to slip in wet clutch bikes. It is fine for car motors as clutches on them are dry clutch systems but not good for wet clutch bikes.
I learned the hard way too using it in my 83 goldwing when I got back to riding in 2009 from a 25 year away from bikes. I bought the bike that had slept for 13 years or more and brought it back to life. The clutch slipped on my 1st ride.
I also learned from that asking on the goldwing forum I was on, that Seafoam and Marvel Mystery Oil both can be used to flush the crankcase of the grunge of old oil left in the motor of the bikes for years, and if done properly it will clean the clutch plates of the friction modifiers.  So I did it according to the forum advice of long time members there to put in Rotella 15w40, put in 2 qts of oil, then put in a full can of Seafoam, 16 oz, then fill the oil level to full mark with the Rotella. Go out for 1 ride, of 100-200 miles, keeping the rpms below 2,500 so you don't harm the motor works, shifting lots up and down to clean the clutch plates and circulate the oil in the clutch housing as there isn't a lot of oil flow through the  clutch area. Again, don't hammer the motor. The 100-200 miles will fully heat the motor and any grunge in it so that when you get back home, drain the oil while it's still hot so all the grunge will flow out with the oil. Change the oil and filter. Put in fresh Rotella.
Then you can ride it for another 1500 miles as normal and then change the oil and filter again. Then do normal oil changes at 3,000 miles after that. I put 26,500 miles on that wing in a year and a half with no problems, and didn't have to change the clutch in it.
I've used the Rotella in all my bikes, wings and CB750s, and also have flushed each of the old engines with Seafoam to get the old oil grunge out. I haven't bought a new bike since 1976.
For my 750 I run Honda 20w50 oil in the summer months and Rotella 15w40 in cooler months for easier starting. I usually put the bikes away mid November for the winter nap with a fresh oil change after the last hour ride to warm the bike 1st.

Thank you for all the advice! I'm in Lisbon Falls, which is twenty minutes from Lewiston to the west, ten minutes from Brunswick to the east, and about half an hour north of Portland. I'm really enjoying the bike and looking forward to learning more and more about these beautiful machines.

[csmadore]

I just wanted to correct something I said in my original post: I went back and measured the oil I drained from my crankcase

I'm sorry, but you don't figure oil consumption based on what you drained. A bit of oil always stays in the case, some goes with the filter etc. You should go by the reading on the dipstick: starting from a fresh oil change with the dipstick reading full (dipstick not screwed down), check how far the level drops with mileage, and how much oil is needed over time to keep it topped up.

Ten-four. But couldn't I just subtract the oil drained from the amount of oil added to achieve a full read on the dipstick? That would correctly calculate how much additional oil was needed, no?

[newday777]

I just wanted to correct something I said in my original post: I went back and measured the oil I drained from my crankcase

I'm sorry, but you don't figure oil consumption based on what you drained. A bit of oil always stays in the case, some goes with the filter etc. You should go by the reading on the dipstick: starting from a fresh oil change with the dipstick reading full (dipstick not screwed down), check how far the level drops with mileage, and how much oil is needed over time to keep it topped up.

Ten-four. But couldn't I just subtract the oil drained from the amount of oil added to achieve a full read on the dipstick? That would correctly calculate how much additional oil was needed, no?

As Scott said, trying to figure how much your bike used by the drainage doesn't really work. Keep an eye on checking the oil level every ride, if it gets down the stick level at 500 miles 1/2 way between the hash marks, bring it up to the top mark, how much does it take to bring it to the top mark is how you figure usage. Always check the level with the bike on the centerstand(or held upright in a chock/or with a track stand if no centerstand). Remove the dipstick, wipe clean, put dipstick in to the point where you would screw in but don't screw it in, just pull it out to check the level.

[csmadore]

Thank you. I do check it, as well as work on it, on the center stand.

[Tracksnblades1]

Seafoam does well on cleaning out hydraulic lifters and such but honda sohc have a rocker arm running direct on cam and opening valve by pivot, no pushrods, no followers, no cam buckets etc

Well if you’re using SeaFoam as an oil additive, it will certainly work its way through the entire circulation system of the oil and “unclog” rings, restrictors, lubricate the seals and so on. Seems immaterial that it’s being used in an SOHC, DOHC, pushrod or modern valve train motor.

Thank you. I do check it, as well as work on it, on the center stand.

And with initially using the Rotella to scrub those ring lands and engine cases you don’t even have to worry about reducing the protection provided by a quality engine oil by mixing something with it that wasn’t designed to be used that way..

Attached is an oil analysis of Rotella T4 15w-40. It may have twice the detergent levels your gasoline Pennzoil does depending on which formulation you’re using. It’ll clean your 550’s innards quick. Calcium and magnesium are the detergents. Magnesium is more propular with def, dpf, catalysts, and converters. But T4 is for old stuff. T6 for the newer ones.

https://pqia.org/shell-rotella-t4-sae-15w-40-heavy-duty-diesel-engine-oil/