Author Topic: I am so ashamed.....  (Read 4038 times)

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Offline britman

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2023, 06:36:43 AM »
Apparently this bike wants to live with me forever.  Put the clutch back up with Hondaman's extra holes, new discs, cleaned and sanded plates, shifts like butter.  God knows I don't want to discuss oil but I did use a heavier grade this time and an inspection of the oil I had used on the first start up and the neighborhood rides showed no debris or metal.  The bike starts and runs like a champ, "EXCEPT" there is a clunking or grinding noise for short periods when under load in first and second, it is like the bike ships a beat and loses momentum.  I though the clutch overall would be the solution but apparently there is a another issue, what a surprise.  New chain and sprockets are installed and when the bike is on the center stand I don't hear any grinding or feel any wheel free play. I did replace the wheel rubber bumpers with a used set that was still in good condition and still pliable and to answer the next question I know is coming, no I did not replace the wheel bearings and from a couple of threads I have searched on this forum I am leaning to those as being the culprit. A new set is on the way and if I recall not the most fun job dealing with the inner spacer and getting the old ones pulled. I do have a blind puller somewhere stashed, one of those tools you use every 10 years or so.  There is an old saying, "Every problem is an opportunity", if true, this bike has truly enriched my life more than I will ever realize.......

Offline denward17

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2023, 07:03:42 AM »
I just breezed through the entire thread but didn't see any mention, did you take the top end apart and do any inspections?

Offline britman

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2023, 08:36:42 AM »
No Sir, just installed a new valve cover gasket......

Offline grcamna2

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2023, 11:34:48 AM »
Apparently this bike wants to live with me forever.  Put the clutch back up with Hondaman's extra holes, new discs, cleaned and sanded plates, shifts like butter.  God knows I don't want to discuss oil but I did use a heavier grade this time and an inspection of the oil I had used on the first start up and the neighborhood rides showed no debris or metal.  The bike starts and runs like a champ, "EXCEPT" there is a clunking or grinding noise for short periods when under load in first and second, it is like the bike ships a beat and loses momentum.  I though the clutch overall would be the solution but apparently there is a another issue, what a surprise.  New chain and sprockets are installed and when the bike is on the center stand I don't hear any grinding or feel any wheel free play. I did replace the wheel rubber bumpers with a used set that was still in good condition and still pliable and to answer the next question I know is coming, no I did not replace the wheel bearings and from a couple of threads I have searched on this forum I am leaning to those as being the culprit. A new set is on the way and if I recall not the most fun job dealing with the inner spacer and getting the old ones pulled. I do have a blind puller somewhere stashed, one of those tools you use every 10 years or so.  There is an old saying, "Every problem is an opportunity", if true, this bike has truly enriched my life more than I will ever realize.......

I'm encouraged by your work on the bike;the title says you're so ashamed.
The work you did on this good bike is nothing to be ashamed of.  ;) lol.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline denward17

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2023, 11:45:41 AM »
Apparently this bike wants to live with me forever.  Put the clutch back up with Hondaman's extra holes, new discs, cleaned and sanded plates, shifts like butter.  God knows I don't want to discuss oil but I did use a heavier grade this time and an inspection of the oil I had used on the first start up and the neighborhood rides showed no debris or metal.  The bike starts and runs like a champ, "EXCEPT" there is a clunking or grinding noise for short periods when under load in first and second, it is like the bike ships a beat and loses momentum.  I though the clutch overall would be the solution but apparently there is a another issue, what a surprise.  New chain and sprockets are installed and when the bike is on the center stand I don't hear any grinding or feel any wheel free play. I did replace the wheel rubber bumpers with a used set that was still in good condition and still pliable and to answer the next question I know is coming, no I did not replace the wheel bearings and from a couple of threads I have searched on this forum I am leaning to those as being the culprit. A new set is on the way and if I recall not the most fun job dealing with the inner spacer and getting the old ones pulled. I do have a blind puller somewhere stashed, one of those tools you use every 10 years or so.  There is an old saying, "Every problem is an opportunity", if true, this bike has truly enriched my life more than I will ever realize.......

I'm encouraged by your work on the bike;the title says you're so ashamed.
The work you did on this good bike is nothing to be ashamed of.  ;) lol.

Indeed, you brought one back from the dead so to speak, great job.

Question: I saw in the other thread about VMR paints that you painted a tank this morning, is that going on this bike?

Looks great BTW, did you use rattle cans for that and was it 2k clear?  Base 1K?

Offline britman

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2023, 01:08:18 PM »
Yes they are the tins for this bike.  I selected the color and it was not what I was expecting, but I bought, I used it.  I was looking for more of a maroon shade, but from now on I will have to think about my color blindness.  Everything is in the curing booth, currently, the backyard patio table in the sun........

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2023, 05:51:18 PM »
Maybe not the colour you intended, but they look great!! Nice work.

Offline britman

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2023, 01:08:34 PM »
New wheel bearings in the rear, the clunk in the drive line is still there.  Almost like a clunk/slippage combination.  The bike goes through all the gears, neutral is back and better than ever.  Brand new chain and sprockets and clutch plates.  Has anyone ever had old crush drive rubbers cause a similar situation. (I had a feeling of the rear wheel missing a beat, no noise, on my old Honda Chopper, and a new set of drive rubbers cured that.)  The used set I put in this bike were quite hard, but there was no cracked or missing portions.  When you check the movement with the sprocket with the wheel on the bench there is very little free play.  I thought I would see if there was any suggestions or input here before I drop more cash, a new set is not cheap.  I am either going to order a set and try one more thing, or just put the bike up for sale as is, with full disclosure, and a price reflecting the issue, and move on with life.  I am really starting to get frustrated with this bike, it is at the point where it is not enjoyable anymore.....

Offline denward17

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2023, 01:27:12 PM »
Did the internal collar in the rear hub have any play in it? 

Do you hear the noise when on the center stand and moving the wheel back and forth?

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2023, 02:39:19 PM »
What about the rubbers in the clutch basket drive? Not sure what they are called. I’ve never changed a set, but my K3 has a similar judder I am convinced comes from there. It does go away once under way. Plan to investigate this winter….. Cyclex makes an interesting kit. Or it might be easier to just swap it out for another one?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2023, 02:50:00 PM by BenelliSEI »

Offline britman

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2023, 07:44:23 AM »
There is little to movement in the wheel while on the center stand and I think John has identified the culprit from afar.  I am going to start doing some research this morning on replacement of the the "Clutch Basket Rubbers".   Currently I am dumfounded, not all that unusual condition for me, on how to pull the damn thing, how do you free the chains, do you replace them, so and so forth.  This is something I have never encountered and hopefully there is some instructions or a video out there.  The kit looks very interesting, so we will see.  I do know my personal knock around 73 K does have a lot of clutch noise and I have detected a real slight slip now and then, again all new clutch in that one also. 

Offline PeWe

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2023, 09:03:46 AM »
I have sent primary hubs to Germany to replace the cush rubbers.
They riveted the parts together wich I let them do for not much extra.
My K6 newer hub got the needle bearings replaced too.

https://www.fourever-classic-parts.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26&Itemid=31

Too much problems to ship from USA.
They will most likely ship the parts. How to rivet another story.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline britman

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2023, 11:16:13 AM »
Anyone tell me how to remove the clutch basket drive where the 12 rubber dampers live???  I can't seem to locate a thread with the instructions and my Chilton manual is no help.  Does the motor need to have the cases split for access?  Thanks in advance for any help, as always much appreciated.....

Online RAFster122s

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2023, 04:38:11 PM »
Those prices are very good, you will spend more getting the ribbers from Honda and then need to find the rivets...
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2023, 05:01:59 PM »
There is little to movement in the wheel while on the center stand and I think John has identified the culprit from afar.  I am going to start doing some research this morning on replacement of the the "Clutch Basket Rubbers".   Currently I am dumfounded, not all that unusual condition for me, on how to pull the damn thing, how do you free the chains, do you replace them, so and so forth.  This is something I have never encountered and hopefully there is some instructions or a video out there.  The kit looks very interesting, so we will see.  I do know my personal knock around 73 K does have a lot of clutch noise and I have detected a real slight slip now and then, again all new clutch in that one also.

I was hoping I was wrong. Never done one, so can’t respond. I’ll bet PeWe will have the full answer. I did check out the website he posted. Ugly pictures…… Be interested in knowledgeable replies!

Offline britman

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2023, 07:00:21 PM »
Not the answer I was hoping for....according to the knowledgeable and very helpful owner of Cycle X who happened to answer the phone, you have to split the cases to get to the drive.  Going to think on it for a few days and make a call....Thanks one and all for all of the replies....


Offline PeWe

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #66 on: October 19, 2023, 12:17:15 AM »
Cases to be apart to fix this.
Good idea to check crank bearings, primary chains with tensioner at the same time.

I have never taken the hub apart.
It must be drill rivet open on one side.....
I guess it can be a good idea to mark how the parts sat and assemble the parts in same way with new rubbers.

Really important that rear wheel has working cush rubbers.
I read about quickly damaged rubbers in primary hub when rear wheel had no cush rubber, spoocket  carrier.
Race forum. Vintage racer ride a little bit harder with  decelerations using gearbox followed by wot.

Ny K6 got the rubbers installed by the German company 2016 if I remember correctly. Many torturing dyno runs, 90-107whp. Mostly over 100whp range.

Rubbers still OK. Rear wheel need new at next wheel removal.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 01:03:57 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline grcamna2

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #67 on: October 19, 2023, 10:19:49 AM »
I would consider replacing the rear sprocket dampers with fresh,pliable ones? before going into the engine.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #68 on: October 19, 2023, 12:07:25 PM »
I would consider replacing the rear sprocket dampers with fresh,pliable ones? before going into the engine.

I changed the cush rubbers when I installed the Lester’s on my K3, but it still has a rattle when setting off in first gear. I suspect this clutch rubbers…….

Offline britman

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #69 on: October 19, 2023, 12:25:32 PM »
I am trying one more thing, a 5 disc 6 steel clutch conversion, recommended by the owner of Cycle X.  Cost for the aluminum spacer was cheap, thought it was worth a shot.  Metal on metal on the pressure plate and rear of the basket.  If this doesn't do it, I will have the worlds most expensive "parts bike."  It will go out the door with that heading, with title, and priced accordingly.  Win some-lose some, such is life. There is no way this old 75 year mind and body would have the mechanical or physical ability to pull that motor and tear it completely down.

When all is said and done, I would like to do a 305 Dream.  I have always thought they were butt arse ugly but for some reason one is calling my name.....

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #70 on: October 22, 2023, 11:48:30 AM »
Hope that solves it! Will be interested in the outcome.

Offline britman

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2023, 07:03:56 AM »
The spacer should be here today, but I am not all that certain it will solve the issue.  I am interested to see how the set up works, Ken, the owner swears it will eliminate all clutch chatter and increase performance.  If so I am planning on ordering his Ultimate System for my personal 73K when it comes in for winter maintenance. 

Offline britman

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2023, 09:10:23 AM »
Well, final chapter.  I have installed the Cycle X spacer and the 5 discs set up.  I must say the bike shifts like butter and any clutch rattle is all but eliminated, "but" the clunk is still there. No more money will be invested in this machine, I am installing the tins today and will either post it for sale "as is" or roll it into the back shed as a source of parts should another project come along.  I fully understand and accept the fact that buying run down abandoned bikes will result in a true dud now and then and it was my time.  I have made money on some, broke even on a few, and lost money on a couple, but this one get top prize in the last category.  I am accepting my fate really well, I guess with old age comes patience.  I remember finishing with my Father many years back before he departed this old world, if his line would get snagged, most of the time he would say "Something might come along and free it" and he would sit patiently and wait.  Occasionally damned if it didn't happen, but he really didn't care, he was just truly enjoying the day of fishing.  I will do another project eventually, but for the beginning of the cold season I am going to concentrate on maintenance on my small herd of keepers and wait and see if something doesn't come along and un-snag that line.  As usual, thanks one and all for your suggestions and input.....

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2023, 02:26:03 PM »
Ouch! You have the right attitude. If it helps, my son and I have been riding the K4 with that slight “clunk” for +5 years. I’ve long suspected that clutch cush drive part. However, the bike drives so well we’ve decided to just ignore it. This one has never had the engine out of the frame and otherwise runs really well. I’ll bet it runs longer than most of us?

Offline britman

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Re: I am so ashamed.....
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2023, 11:32:40 AM »
"SOLD"  New home Japan where I am sure a Japanese mechanic will have it torn down and rebuilt in a matter of hours.  I lost a good bit pf money, but I am glad to see this one leave regardless of circumstances.  The final straw was last evening when I put the side stand down and the lug broke.  I went arse over teacups and took most of the skin off of the inside of my left arm on the side of the lift, the bike did not get a scratch.  Devil machine I am sure, I hope the shipper gets here real soon but I will be wearing a gallic clove neckless and carrying a cross and a wooden stake every time I enter the garage till then.......