Topic: Proper Oil

[Rosinante]

I've done the Search and the answers to my questions are still unclear.  Perhaps because this is likely a disputed topic, or not well-understood, or both.

We should use oil that lacks the super-slippery additives which can wreak havoc with our wet clutch plates.  Can anyone tell me definitively how I can identify oil that fits this description?

As a secondary question, our valve tappets love zinc/phosphorus (ZDDP) to help protect against cam and cam follower wear.  How can I identify this additive?

[denward17]

I can't specifically answer your question, but from a reliable source here in the forum, I ran Rotella T4 15w40 during engine break -in and cooler weather.

After break-in and when the weather got hotter, I switched to 20w50 Bel Ray mineral oil.

[BenelliSEI]

Castrol 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil. 10W40 and 20W50 depending on temperatures.

[newday777]

Summer heat above 70 degrees you want to use 20w50. I've had a few cases of Honda 20w50 that came with my K5 that I bought from my friend's estate so I haven't had to buy any yet but will have to in the next couple of years. I run Rotella 15w40 in the cooler weather before I put it away for it's winter's nap here in NH.

This ZDDP additive has been written up on the forum. I haven't tried it yet.

ZDDPPlus ZDDP Engine Oil Additive Zinc & Phosphorus 2 Bottles https://a.co/d/6nNYhX7

[Rosinante]

Perhaps I did not ask this question correctly.  How can I identify proper oil for this bike in an auto parts store?  Sure, I can find a motorcycle store and they can advise me, but I was hoping I could just go to O'Reilly's or AutoZone.  In those stores, I don't think I will find an oil labeled as Castrol Wet Clutch Motorcycle Oil.

[TwoTired]

If you get oil that has a JASO MA 1 or 2 rating on its label it will have all the proper additives your vintage engine trans and clutch requires.

[grcamna2]

Perhaps I did not ask this question correctly.  How can I identify proper oil for this bike in an auto parts store?  Sure, I can find a motorcycle store and they can advise me, but I was hoping I could just go to O'Reilly's or AutoZone.  In those stores, I don't think I will find an oil labeled as Castrol Wet Clutch Motorcycle Oil.

The good wet clutch additives that you want in 'motorcycle specific' oils(Yes,they Do have a section for motorcycle specific engine oil)are: JASO MA/MA-2.

[PeWe]

Some oil additives with Zinc have antifriction stuff so beware.
A forum member here has a CB750 that is a real long miler. Over 160.000 miles.

He has used Spectro HD Mineral 20W-50 most of the time. Engine still original.

You have not mentioned which bike you have.

[BenelliSEI]

Perhaps I did not ask this question correctly.  How can I identify proper oil for this bike in an auto parts store?  Sure, I can find a motorcycle store and they can advise me, but I was hoping I could just go to O'Reilly's or AutoZone.  In those stores, I don't think I will find an oil labeled as Castrol Wet Clutch Motorcycle Oil.

That’s where I get mine in Canada. It’s easy to spot; the label has a picture of a motorcycle and says “4-Stroke Motorcycle”.

[willbird]

Perhaps I did not ask this question correctly.  How can I identify proper oil for this bike in an auto parts store?  Sure, I can find a motorcycle store and they can advise me, but I was hoping I could just go to O'Reilly's or AutoZone.  In those stores, I don't think I will find an oil labeled as Castrol Wet Clutch Motorcycle Oil.

My local Autozone has Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Engine Oil Full Synthetic 20W-50 1 which has a banner on the front saying it is good for wet clutch. Valvoline 743525. I have not found a zinc content on it yet.

Bill

[Tracksnblades1]

Perhaps I did not ask this question correctly.  How can I identify proper oil for this bike in an auto parts store?  Sure, I can find a motorcycle store and they can advise me, but I was hoping I could just go to O'Reilly's or AutoZone.  In those stores, I don't think I will find an oil labeled as Castrol Wet Clutch Motorcycle Oil.

Whatever oil you choose, rest assured it’ll out perform and protect your engine better than any of the 1969-1978 formulations available when Honda warrantied these engines….🤔

[willbird]

Perhaps I did not ask this question correctly.  How can I identify proper oil for this bike in an auto parts store?  Sure, I can find a motorcycle store and they can advise me, but I was hoping I could just go to O'Reilly's or AutoZone.  In those stores, I don't think I will find an oil labeled as Castrol Wet Clutch Motorcycle Oil.

Whatever oil you choose, rest assured it’ll out perform and protect your engine better than any of the 1969-1978 formulations available when Honda warrantied these engines….🤔

I’d add the caveat that this is very true as long as the choice has adequate zinc for our valve train.

[Tracksnblades1]

Perhaps I did not ask this question correctly.  How can I identify proper oil for this bike in an auto parts store?  Sure, I can find a motorcycle store and they can advise me, but I was hoping I could just go to O'Reilly's or AutoZone.  In those stores, I don't think I will find an oil labeled as Castrol Wet Clutch Motorcycle Oil.

Whatever oil you choose, rest assured it’ll out perform and protect your engine better than any of the 1969-1978 formulations available when Honda warrantied these engines….🤔

I’d add the caveat that this is very true as long as the choice has adequate zinc for our valve train.

Indeed …..

Just let us know which of the modern oils aren’t up to the task…
It may be the shorter list…

Too slippery to rotate a lifter doesn’t mean it doesn’t have the load bearing capacity over the nose…🤔

[smee]

Honestly, anything with JASO/MA/MA2 specifications is fine. Many times they say "Wet Clutch Protection" or something similar. Autozone sells a wet clutch motorcycle 10W40 from Valvoline that is decent price. Same for Rotella T4 15W40, but in the automotive oils section.

When I'm flush with cash, Honda GN4 20W50 in summer and 10W40 in cooler shoulder seasons every 1,500-2,000 mi (I am in CO).

Without going off the deep end (and I am no professed expert in oils), just make sure to change it often enough and get something that is for wet clutches (no friction modifiers, etc.).

[willbird]

Perhaps I did not ask this question correctly.  How can I identify proper oil for this bike in an auto parts store?  Sure, I can find a motorcycle store and they can advise me, but I was hoping I could just go to O'Reilly's or AutoZone.  In those stores, I don't think I will find an oil labeled as Castrol Wet Clutch Motorcycle Oil.

Whatever oil you choose, rest assured it’ll out perform and protect your engine better than any of the 1969-1978 formulations available when Honda warrantied these engines….🤔

I’d add the caveat that this is very true as long as the choice has adequate zinc for our valve train.

Indeed …..

Just let us know which of the modern oils aren’t up to the task…
It may be the shorter list…

Too slippery to rotate a lifter doesn’t mean it doesn’t have the load bearing capacity over the nose…🤔

Well at least our rocker arms do not rotate ;-).

[bryanj]

Considering it should be changed every 1500 miles i do not see the point of the expensive oils as long as the one you buy meets or exceeds the original Honda spec for the year and model

[70CB750]

I run dino Valvoline 20W50 year around in Red and also in the CB900C. Never had an issue with a clutch or anything.  Both bikes use the same filter cartridge, too.

[BenelliSEI]

I think oil threads are so much fun…… What was the question?

[Deltarider]

Please realise that Shell has put that JASO MA spec. on the package, only as Shell does not have a line with motorcycle oils. Not in the US, that is. In Europe Rotella goes under the name Rimula and, guess what, on the package you will miss that JASO MA spec. That doesn't mean it isn't. The reason is that in Europe Shell has other packages for bikes and ofcourse Shell wants you to buy these more expensive products. It's called marketing. Last April I travelled the Southwest and I have seen for myself how cheap Rotella is in the US shops. In Europe Rimula is quite expensive. Opposite to that, in our shops here, you will find Valvoline oils dirt cheap.
 If you're interested, I did my own research*. In short, an oil that is good enough for an old aircooled flat tappet Porsche, is good enough for my bike.
* http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186850.msg2168655.html#msg2168655

[Rosinante]

The bike is a 1978 CB750K.

Thanks to all.  This helps a LOT!

FWIW, Valvoline Racing 20w50 is in the bike right now, and the clutch sometimes misbehaves.  It never seems to slip without me touching the clutch lever, but ANY tension on the clutch cable will cause slippage.  I'd guess I could not wheelie this thing using the time-honored method of popping the clutch but I'm not going to try.  Those days are over for me.

[PeWe]

Eurol an alternative in Europe.

Oil prices has increased the last year here.
Spectro HD mineral cost +50% more!
Maybe popular due to its quality and documented high dose of zinc.

I bought some before the price rally.

I have in parallel found another Harley motor oil for gearbox and wet clutch.
Eurol mineral and synthetic 20W-50 oils.
Really good priced.

Have worked fine so far. Changes at ca 4500km.

With the syntetic Twinlube I have added almost a bottle of Red Line Motorcycle oil 20W-50 or 20W-60 as zinc additive.
Cam and rockers in my K6 looked good at last teardown August 2022. Race springs and high lift cam, good power.

Spectro into my K2 last time.

The K2 takes no oil at all. Very strange.
Maybe 5mm lower on stick after 3200km if it had a few mm over max at last change.

It will get Eurol at next change with ca 1/4 Spectro as  additive. It has high dose of zinc.
It has got a full change of Eurol Twinlube synth before.

I noticed that my K6 starter gear could slip now and then with Red Line  only, 20W-60, 20W-50 too.
No clutch slip despite +100whp.

Red Line motorcycle oil  esther synth has high content of zinc and phosphorous.
Spectro has similar levels according to spec in an old oil thread on this forum

[willbird]

Considering it should be changed every 1500 miles i do not see the point of the expensive oils as long as the one you buy meets or exceeds the original Honda spec for the year and model

It would be interesting to do an oil analysis and see what is going on at 1500 miles. That interval was established in the 1960's with oils far inferior to what we have today.

Bill

[Tracksnblades1]

Considering it should be changed every 1500 miles i do not see the point of the expensive oils as long as the one you buy meets or exceeds the original Honda spec for the year and model

It would be interesting to do an oil analysis and see what is going on at 1500 miles. That interval was established in the 1960's with oils far inferior to what we have today.

Bill

I’m pretty sure my son’s air cooled 2014 Honda CB1100 operator manual states 6,000 kilometers 10w-30 Honda GN4 oil.  By 2015 Honda changed the oil service interval to 12,000 kilometers on the same engine…..just one of the advantages of fuel injection over 45 year old carburetors with manual chokes…

Equally interesting Honda used the same crankshaft oil clearances on the later air cooled CB1100 that they used on their early ones as well as the old sohc750s.

[Mark K]

I've done the Search and the answers to my questions are still unclear.  Perhaps because this is likely a disputed topic, or not well-understood, or both.

We should use oil that lacks the super-slippery additives which can wreak havoc with our wet clutch plates.  Can anyone tell me definitively how I can identify oil that fits this description?

As a secondary question, our valve tappets love zinc/phosphorus (ZDDP) to help protect against cam and cam follower wear.  How can I identify this additive?

This is what I used, recommended by Larry, who builds and races CB750 engines.

[willbird]

Considering it should be changed every 1500 miles i do not see the point of the expensive oils as long as the one you buy meets or exceeds the original Honda spec for the year and model

It would be interesting to do an oil analysis and see what is going on at 1500 miles. That interval was established in the 1960's with oils far inferior to what we have today.

Bill

I’m pretty sure my son’s air cooled 2014 Honda CB1100 operator manual states 6,000 kilometers 10w-30 Honda GN4 oil.  By 2015 Honda changed the oil service interval to 12,000 kilometers on the same engine…..just one of the advantages of fuel injection over 45 year old carburetors with manual chokes…

Equally interesting Honda used the same crankshaft oil clearances on the later air cooled CB1100 that they used on their early ones as well as the old sohc750s.

The manual choke on my bike is on for about 30 seconds :-).

Bill