Author Topic: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think  (Read 3232 times)

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Offline dhall57

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The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« on: September 09, 2023, 03:06:45 AM »
I just ran across this and enjoyed watching it. Not sure if it's been posted before and sure some have already seen it but wanted to share it with the one's that have not.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2023, 03:13:29 AM by dhall57 »
1970 CB750KO
1971 CB500KO-project bike
1973 CB350G- project bike
1974 CB750K4-project bike
1974 CB750K4
1976 CB750K6
1977 GL1000
1997 Harley Wideglide

Offline pjandrew99

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2023, 03:27:38 AM »
Great video! Thanks
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Offline newday777

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2023, 04:00:51 AM »
👍👍
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline rotortiller

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2023, 04:03:37 AM »
Good brakes lol!

Offline newday777

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2023, 05:02:04 AM »
Good brakes lol!

Compared to the brakes on the bikes at that time, yes. Very much so.
But if you didn't grow up in that Era, you wouldn't know....
Compared to today's standard you are correct.....
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline HondaMan

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2023, 08:31:22 AM »
I've seen this video before: I didn't like the errant factoids in it, so I haven't been eager to share it here. After all, it was "Discovery" TV.

Honda was developing, at 1967, the "King of all motorcycles" as Sochiro put it: it was going to be a 1000cc twin with DOHC like the CB450, according to all reports. Bob Hansen changed history at the meeting Honda had arranged with him to unveil the design: he was the head of American Honda at the time. When he was at the big dinner with all the mucky-mucks of Honda (and Sochiro) and they were talking about this, one of Sochiro's advisors asked Bob what he thought of the idea. He replied, "That would be great, so long as it is not another Twin." The immediate response from the advisor, after translating this to Sochiro, was, "Why would you say this?" as they all knew it was a Twin, and was to be revealed to Bob after the dinner. Bob replied, "Well, even BSA is making a triple now." It was said the room went very quiet for a minute, and then Sochiro nodded and replied by asking Bob how much HP the BSA engine made. Bob replied with "67", which was the published spec at the time. Then after a conversation with his cohorts, Sochiro was reported to say that Honda would then make a Four, as they had Fours in their racing experience, and it would make 68 HP. It would also be the most beautiful motorcycle the world had seen.

The last statement sounded very much like Sochiro.

Bob never got to see the giant Twin, but pieces of its design leaked out in other engines after that, like counter-rotating weights in the bottom end to reduce the vibration typical of Twins. Some said it was the V-Twin that became the CX500, but I know that to be derived from the oval-piston V-twins of Honda's racing experience, so I'm dubious of that rumor.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2023, 09:53:37 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline PeWe

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2023, 09:54:28 AM »
Thank you very much for that video. I really enjoyed it! ;)
CB750 is still a good bike!
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Johnie

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2023, 12:04:46 PM »
Thanks Hall. I really liked the video and have a new appreciation for my KO.
1970 CB750K0 - Candy Ruby Red
1973 CB750K3 - Candy Bacchus Olive or Sunflake Orange
1970 Chevy Chevelle SS396 - Cortez Silver
1976 GL1000 Sulphur Yellow

Oshkosh, WI  USA

Offline MauiK3

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2023, 02:20:46 PM »
That video is by a channel called “Bart”, not the makers name, I forget why he named it that. His videos are generally very good and usually fairly accurate of course not perfect.
He has some very entertaining ones, no hype, just good information.
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Offline rotortiller

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2023, 03:27:56 PM »
Quote
But if you didn't grow up in that Era, you wouldn't know...

Yea I did, and they sucked even back then.

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2023, 04:52:08 PM »
the only "sucking" going on back then happened to those harley, bsa, norton, and triumph riders breathing in that exhaust and dust left behind from that 750...

troll?

Offline rotortiller

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2023, 05:26:48 PM »
Troll, I think not. Basically the drum brakes of that era were stopping just as well. It was not until later development that the disc came into its place. Back in the day everyone and their dog was adding a second disc  and modding speedo drives trying to make the bike stop in an acceptable manner.  The stock brake sucks today just like yesterday lol. Good advancement in bike engine tech back then, but the rest had a ways to go. No leaks, long engine life and smooth running were and still are the true virtues.

Offline calj737

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2023, 05:33:13 PM »
The stock brake sucks today just like yesterday lol.
Are you saying modern brakes suck, or the stock SOHC brakes then and now suck?
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline rotortiller

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2023, 05:53:02 PM »
Modern disc brakes are very good, SOHC brakes have sucked and still suck :)

Offline calj737

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2023, 08:01:09 PM »
Modern disc brakes are very good, SOHC brakes have sucked and still suck :)
Agree totally with that.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline HondaMan

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2023, 08:22:04 PM »
I kinda like that the front brake (with 1 caliper) isn't so strong: here in Colorado they use lots of sand on the streets in winter and much of it remains through mid-summer. The bikers with stronger front brakes have to be extra alert in the early riding season, mine not so much. When I first arrived in CO I had 2 discs: after the 3rd Spring here I was willing to lose one after going down twice in sandy street corners. At least I wasn't going fast!
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Rookster

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2023, 08:59:18 PM »
the only "sucking" going on back then happened to those harley, bsa, norton, and triumph riders breathing in that exhaust and dust left behind from that 750...

This has become the narrative today but it isn't really true.  The CB750 didn't outsell the British bikes because of performamce.  A Norton Commando was faster than any CB750 and handled better too.  The Triumph Bonneville routinely ran mid 13s in the quarter mile and handled better as well.  The CB750 was a better all around package for less money than the Commando or the Bonneville.  Honda essentially sold the CB750 for much lower margins in the US than the rest of the world to eat into Triumphs US market share.  It worked.  BSA/Triumph completely bungled their 1971 lineup and bankrupted the BSA motorcycle division.  From 1971 on Triumph never regained the market share they lost due to the 1971 disaster.  The Triumph workers went on a prolonged strike in Sept 1973 which further hurt their market share.  The fact that Triumph made it to the 1980s was a testament to how good the Bonneville actually was.  The CB750 was a great motorcycle but it wasn't a better performer than the British bikes.  It was easier to ride, less labor intensive and cheaper than the British oil leakers.

Scott
« Last Edit: September 09, 2023, 09:03:54 PM by Rookster »

Offline Deltarider

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2023, 04:47:39 AM »
That video is by a channel called “Bart”, not the makers name, I forget why he named it that.
Not Breitbart, I hope?
His videos are generally very good and usually fairly accurate of course not perfect.
He has some very entertaining ones, no hype, just good information.
About the source. I couldn't detect an accent, but 'Bart' is a common Dutch name. Also the video has quite some footage shot in Dutch streets. License plates etc. indicate to that.
About the brakes.
I'm with Hondaman here. A few specific observations from my part however.
1.The performance of my front disk brake as well of the rear drum brake, are well within the law.
2. I don't need extra stopping power. I rather stick to a defensive mode of riding.
3. I consider the risk of blocking the front wheel far, far higher than a too long braking distance.
4. As it is now, I can brake like a fool and if I really try, I can still make the disk sing, indicating I'm close to blocking. But - I admit - it is hard to get there. Honda could easily have made the brake more aggressive. They choose not. In me believe it was for marketing reasons. They wanted a safe bike that anyone could ride and not one that would be in the pics in newspapers whenever there had been another accident.
5. The standard disk brake sucks in the wet, period. But... gentlemen don't ride in rain.
6. I don't like double disks: added unsprung weight, the front will be more sensitive to crosswinds at an angle. This can only be partly overcome by fitting lighter materials.
7. I don't like the looks, but that's personal.
8. It's extra labour and extra parts like another master cylinder etc. It seems that for others that argument is just a plus. Often I have the impression they like to buy stuff and any opportunity to tinker is a good one for them. People differ.
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Offline rotortiller

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2023, 05:15:14 AM »
I will say this about old bikes with bad front brakes is that when accurately upgraded it makes a world of difference in safety, confidence plus  allows for more spirited rides. I installed modern single disc post 2000 calipers from a 250 Ninja on three of my H2 Triples and they stop better than any vintage dual disc setup ever did or will. Modulation and precision braking power make them very useful even on sandy conditions. If the roads are too slippery for a ride due to poor rider skills with a bike employing good brakes maybe one should stay home.  My dirt bike disc brakes stop better than the SOHC lol, total garbage reasoning.

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2023, 06:46:45 AM »
I’m at a bike show in Ma. Hard to type on phone. and talking…
But published, real world performance with 1969 Norton-triumph-Honda comparisons do not support the overall speed boasts of Norton over the 750..
Power to weight comparison has the 750/ triumph equal at 7.4 lbs/hp. The Norton comes in at 7.2..
But every article I’ve researched says the 750 top speed was higher…

And vintage brakes were not junk.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2023, 07:50:32 AM »
[...] Modulation and precision braking power make them very useful even on sandy conditions.
Sandy conditions? Sandy conditions?! What sandy conditions are you referring to? In my trans Sahara journeys I've learned the locals had quite a few names for different 'sandy conditions'. I only remember the fech-fech and I don't have particular good memories of it.
If the roads are too slippery for a ride due to poor rider skills with a bike employing good brakes maybe one should stay home.
Aahhh, now I get it: it's our poor rider skills. Maybe you, grandmaster in braking, can give classes which we can attend so we can learn to spot in a split second what 'sandy condition' we're dealing with and what would be the appropiate reaction. Total garbage bragging. 

« Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 07:52:24 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline MauiK3

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2023, 07:50:48 AM »
Take a look at any group of nice vintage vehicles, or any vintage anything and they all have "faults" when viewed through our more modern eyes.
Water wheels were a big deal in the Middle Ages
Steam cars were amazing back then

The Honda CB750 was a technical/marketing/sweet spot tour de force and powered Honda on to become what it is today.

I like my K3, even with it's "faults".
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline dhall57

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2023, 09:07:16 AM »
IMO for it's day and time 69-76 the CB750 was the Mac Daddy and hard to beat. Was it perfect? No, but it did everything well. That's why it's still being talked about 54 years later.
1970 CB750KO
1971 CB500KO-project bike
1973 CB350G- project bike
1974 CB750K4-project bike
1974 CB750K4
1976 CB750K6
1977 GL1000
1997 Harley Wideglide

Offline PeWe

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2023, 10:46:58 AM »
The real fun with CB750 was all aftermarket parts.
Rebuild it as you want.

Many old owners did that back in the days me included.
Then rebuild it back to stock or at least closer to stock look  30-40 years later.
The old lost junk cost plenty to buy new again ;D

Plenty of go-fast parts today. Probably more than ever! ;D

I did not rebuild brakes on my K6 until 2016. I rode it very wild from the beginning 1979, faster but with better control with 836 (1984), ported head and cam.

It would be fine with a bolt on front brake kit, stock look with more reliable function for ok $$$.

My K2 single front brake not that bad with DSS rotor, EBC V sinter pads and aftermarket CB750 caliper copy.

As Delta wrote, ride in legal speeds and be aware what happen in the traffic, no problem.

My K6 dual front brakes have probably saved my life. But speed more than double than the signs showed. ;D 
(70 vs 170-180kmh)  ;D
Testing main jet full capacity is risky on the roads even remote ones with less traffic.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 02:44:47 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline MauiK3

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Re: The Honda CB750 was NOT what you think
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2023, 02:28:55 PM »
I check in to a YouTube channel called MCRider, the fellow is an instructor and the site is very informative. I’ve learned to ride while keeping an eye on what’s way out front and behind me. The idea is to have enough room to avoid a situation requiring sudden braking or maneuvering. My dual discs (drilled) with stock size MC give me pretty good feel but I don’t want to push it and take unnecessary risks.
When I was 19, perhaps not so much😆
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki