Author Topic: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust  (Read 5677 times)

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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2023, 05:39:33 AM »
Any excess fuel should exit via the overflow tubes. When this does not happen, it indicates to a blockade in that route. That is to be adressed first, to prevent fuel flowing into the cylinder.
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2023, 05:42:37 AM »
Without having read all the above, I'd check whether the airfiltercase and its tubes are all in the right place. If the blow-by gas tube is in the wrong place, it could have unwanted effects.
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Offline Jonm99

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2023, 11:25:03 PM »
Re-do the clear tube test: you still have a problem with excess fuel getting into cylinder #1, flushing past the rings and contaminating the oil.

Rechecked with clear tube method. Carb 1 is at the seam (so indeed a little high), carb 2 just under the seam, 3 and 4 ~4mm under the seam. Not sure that I'm off to the extent that it would (continue to) cause the bike to smoke, but I'll pull the carbs again and make sure I get it right this time. Anyway, I also checked the fuel/air adjuster on the carbs and they were wide open... So maybe that was the issue? I adjusted them to 1.5 turns. Either way, I'm still seeing smoke (unless I need to run the bike for longer to get the gas out of the system?).
1977 cb750k with original airbox, PD41a carbs, slow jets=35, main jets=120, Delkevic 4in1 headers, 18" Cone engineering QC muffler, 7" headlight, dynatek ignition, ss r/r, clip ons, and ebc front brake rotor. All the rest stock, for now. First restoration, lots to learn!

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2023, 04:42:46 AM »
Beg, borrow, or steal a compression tester and do a compression test. Troubleshooting often requires figuring out what it's NOT.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2023, 04:59:42 AM by madmtnmotors »
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
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"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

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Offline scottly

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2023, 08:51:40 AM »
He already did, Wilbur. ;)

Also did a compression test - 1=140, 2=150, 3=125, 4=150

Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline ekpent

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2023, 09:58:44 AM »
Went back a reviewed some of the posts but did not notice how many smoke free miles you had on it before all this started. Was it rebuilt at some point before ? Sorry if it was already mentioned.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2023, 06:20:54 PM »
Anyway, I also checked the fuel/air adjuster on the carbs and they were wide open... So maybe that was the issue? I adjusted them to 1.5 turns. Either way, I'm still seeing smoke (unless I need to run the bike for longer to get the gas out of the system?).
Try 1-3/4 turn instead. ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Offline Jonm99

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2023, 11:11:33 PM »
Went back a reviewed some of the posts but did not notice how many smoke free miles you had on it before all this started. Was it rebuilt at some point before ? Sorry if it was already mentioned.

From most recent to less recent:
1. Camshaft and camshaft holders + cylinder head seals
2. Gear replacement (this one ended up with a blocked oil gallery and hence the subsequent meltdown on the top end)
3. New engine seals (top to bottom) + valve lapping

1+2 were done by a (terrible) mechanic (in and out of the shop for almost a year until I got the bike back, and here we are again)
3 was me (bike ran great after that for a year and half or so until gear issue)

That pretty much sums up the engine work since I got the bike about 6 years ago (#3 above was the tail end of a 3.5 year project)

Anyway, I also checked the fuel/air adjuster on the carbs and they were wide open... So maybe that was the issue? I adjusted them to 1.5 turns. Either way, I'm still seeing smoke (unless I need to run the bike for longer to get the gas out of the system?).
Try 1-3/4 turn instead. ;)

Hmm... As the adjuster screw is on the ntake side of the carb, I was under the impression that it controlled the amount of fuel (i.e opening more is more fuel, less air) and not the amout of air (i.e.more air, less fuel), no?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2023, 04:53:42 AM by Jonm99 »
1977 cb750k with original airbox, PD41a carbs, slow jets=35, main jets=120, Delkevic 4in1 headers, 18" Cone engineering QC muffler, 7" headlight, dynatek ignition, ss r/r, clip ons, and ebc front brake rotor. All the rest stock, for now. First restoration, lots to learn!

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #58 on: September 27, 2023, 04:44:10 AM »
He already did, Wilbur. ;)

Also did a compression test - 1=140, 2=150, 3=125, 4=150

My bad, I even re-read the whole thread before posting. Old-timers setting in...  :P
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #59 on: September 27, 2023, 08:06:55 PM »
Try 1-3/4 turn instead. ;)

Hmm... As the adjuster screw is on the ntake side of the carb, I was under the impression that it controlled the amount of fuel (i.e opening more is more fuel, less air) and not the amout of air (i.e.more air, less fuel), no?
[/quote]

Well...common misconception, really. The little screw adjusts the AMOUNT of air-fuel mix that is admitted: the pilot jet adjusts the RATIO of fuel-to-air.
While it seems true that 'downstream' screws might adjust fuel instead of air, this sort of thinking seems to come from things like lawn mower and weed-beater carbs, where the screws often DO adjust the amount of fuel admitted to the passing airstream, as these machines often have pumper-style carbs - especially the 2-strokes. In those, yes, the screw does affect the fuel. Four-stroke mowers with just 1 screw often meter ADDITIONAL fuel to a fixed-orifice arrangement nowadays, in the interests of limiting emissions, but the base-fuel mix is fixed by jets (or drilled holes).

In these carbs, the pilot jet controls how much fuel is mixed with the air that is coming into the emulsifier (that's those tiny holes in the little tube in the tip of the pilot and main jets) and that air ratio is fixed: the pilot jet then admits [metered by hole size] fuel into that airstream, and the external "idle mix" screw determines for HOW LONG the fuel is fed into the engine during the intake stroke. In between each intake stroke the air pressure in the intake manifold rises suddenly (the intake valve shuts off that airflow) and this pulse pushes the fuel-air mix back down the pilot jet's emulsifier. As the RPM increases this push-down becomes less and less so the pilot system is constantly feeding at about 1800 RPM, until the main slide opens far enough that the airflow is no longer laminar across the top of the pilot jet's opening, and it stops pushing fuel up toward the throat by about 2200 RPM.

So...the idle-mix screw is a timing device more than anything, adjusting how long the pulse of ([#40 hole fuel] + [air admitted at the back of the carb's pilot air port]) will actually happen. Opening it more will start the feed a little bit sooner by restricting the air-fuel mix less: closing it more will shut if off sooner by restricting the available volume of air-fuel mix. Hence, it runs richer as the screw opens more - until the max flow possible is reached.

Deep in the weeds, to be sure: but this is how all these carbs actually work. ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Jonm99

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2023, 12:03:43 PM »
Try 1-3/4 turn instead. ;)

Hmm... As the adjuster screw is on the ntake side of the carb, I was under the impression that it controlled the amount of fuel (i.e opening more is more fuel, less air) and not the amout of air (i.e.more air, less fuel), no?

Well...common misconception, really. The little screw adjusts the AMOUNT of air-fuel mix that is admitted: the pilot jet adjusts the RATIO of fuel-to-air.
While it seems true that 'downstream' screws might adjust fuel instead of air, this sort of thinking seems to come from things like lawn mower and weed-beater carbs, where the screws often DO adjust the amount of fuel admitted to the passing airstream, as these machines often have pumper-style carbs - especially the 2-strokes. In those, yes, the screw does affect the fuel. Four-stroke mowers with just 1 screw often meter ADDITIONAL fuel to a fixed-orifice arrangement nowadays, in the interests of limiting emissions, but the base-fuel mix is fixed by jets (or drilled holes).

In these carbs, the pilot jet controls how much fuel is mixed with the air that is coming into the emulsifier (that's those tiny holes in the little tube in the tip of the pilot and main jets) and that air ratio is fixed: the pilot jet then admits [metered by hole size] fuel into that airstream, and the external "idle mix" screw determines for HOW LONG the fuel is fed into the engine during the intake stroke. In between each intake stroke the air pressure in the intake manifold rises suddenly (the intake valve shuts off that airflow) and this pulse pushes the fuel-air mix back down the pilot jet's emulsifier. As the RPM increases this push-down becomes less and less so the pilot system is constantly feeding at about 1800 RPM, until the main slide opens far enough that the airflow is no longer laminar across the top of the pilot jet's opening, and it stops pushing fuel up toward the throat by about 2200 RPM.

So...the idle-mix screw is a timing device more than anything, adjusting how long the pulse of ([#40 hole fuel] + [air admitted at the back of the carb's pilot air port]) will actually happen. Opening it more will start the feed a little bit sooner by restricting the air-fuel mix less: closing it more will shut if off sooner by restricting the available volume of air-fuel mix. Hence, it runs richer as the screw opens more - until the max flow possible is reached.

Deep in the weeds, to be sure: but this is how all these carbs actually work. ;)
[/quote]

Deep in the weeds is where it gets interesting, thanks for that!

So, if you are suggesting to try 1&3/4  instead of 1&1/2 then that means richer...if we have too much fuel vapor being pushed into the cylinder, wouldn't we want to lean it out?

On a separate note, I spent a few hours dialing in the carbs as best as I could. We are just under the seam on all four now. Was having some issue with carb 3 puking out fuel (from everywhere) every time I did the clear tube method... Couldn't figure out why that was happening. Carb doesn't leak otherwise, drains if I open the drain, and holds the fuel if I close the drain. Only happens when I bend the clear tube upward and open the drain.... In the end I was able to get a proper result on the clear tube, but the whole set up is unstable for some reason. Anyway, I cleaned the drain tube with carb cleaner before reinstalling on the bike for good measure. Not sure this is related to the issue at hand though (probably not I suppose).

Started the bike just for a minute, smoke from the breather and exhaust again. Will let it heat up to operating temp tomorrow, and report back.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 12:56:58 PM by Jonm99 »
1977 cb750k with original airbox, PD41a carbs, slow jets=35, main jets=120, Delkevic 4in1 headers, 18" Cone engineering QC muffler, 7" headlight, dynatek ignition, ss r/r, clip ons, and ebc front brake rotor. All the rest stock, for now. First restoration, lots to learn!

Offline denward17

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2023, 01:59:48 PM »
You probably have verified or already mentioned, but have you verified the choke plates are opening fully when the push choke cable is all the way in?

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2023, 02:19:18 PM »
Do you have a clear picture of the latest spark plugs ?
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Offline scottly

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2023, 08:40:43 PM »


On a separate note, I spent a few hours dialing in the carbs as best as I could. We are just under the seam on all four now. Was having some issue with carb 3 puking out fuel (from everywhere) every time I did the clear tube method... Couldn't figure out why that was happening. Carb doesn't leak otherwise, drains if I open the drain, and holds the fuel if I close the drain. Only happens when I bend the clear tube upward and open the drain.... In the end I was able to get a proper result on the clear tube, but the whole set up is unstable for some reason. Not sure this is related to the issue at hand though (probably not I suppose).

Once again, the level should be 3mm+/- below the "seam". You had similar problems with the #1 carb the last time you tried the clear tube, and, as you have noted, the results have been inconsistent.
My educated guess is you need new float needles, as the little spring-loaded plungers in the original needles can lose their springiness, which can lead to the carbs flooding no matter how you try to set the floats. I once went to look at a K7 for sale. After the seller started it up, I could tell it wasn't running right. I did a quick spit-sizzle test and the both the #2&3 pipes were only warm, and then I noticed the gas dripping out of those two carbs. I got the bike for a couple of hundred dollars below the asking price. I messed with the carbs for a while, trying to stop the overflowing, but finally gave up and fitted a different set of carbs. I didn't figure out until years later that the problem was with the float needles.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2023, 08:55:32 PM »
1mm under is too little. My CB750 carbs needed at least 3-5mm.
It can run 160-170kmh without starving for a few km.
How carbs are mounted can affect too. If just a little tilted.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 09:48:40 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Don R

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2023, 09:35:09 PM »
 I had a set of carbs with weak float needle springs. They drove me crazy until I got a set of new float valves and was surprised how much stronger the new needles were. I had fiddled with the float tabs and had to re-do it.
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Offline Jonm99

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #66 on: September 28, 2023, 10:18:52 PM »


On a separate note, I spent a few hours dialing in the carbs as best as I could. We are just under the seam on all four now. Was having some issue with carb 3 puking out fuel (from everywhere) every time I did the clear tube method... Couldn't figure out why that was happening. Carb doesn't leak otherwise, drains if I open the drain, and holds the fuel if I close the drain. Only happens when I bend the clear tube upward and open the drain.... In the end I was able to get a proper result on the clear tube, but the whole set up is unstable for some reason. Not sure this is related to the issue at hand though (probably not I suppose).

Once again, the level should be 3mm+/- below the "seam". You had similar problems with the #1 carb the last time you tried the clear tube, and, as you have noted, the results have been inconsistent.
My educated guess is you need new float needles, as the little spring-loaded plungers in the original needles can lose their springiness, which can lead to the carbs flooding no matter how you try to set the floats. I once went to look at a K7 for sale. After the seller started it up, I could tell it wasn't running right. I did a quick spit-sizzle test and the both the #2&3 pipes were only warm, and then I noticed the gas dripping out of those two carbs. I got the bike for a couple of hundred dollars below the asking price. I messed with the carbs for a while, trying to stop the overflowing, but finally gave up and fitted a different set of carbs. I didn't figure out until years later that the problem was with the float needles.

OK, I understood 2-4mm under the "mating surface". So does that.mean measurement starts where the float meets the body of the carb (red arrow in attached) or measurement starts under the seam of the float bowl (which presumably would be under the gasket - green arrow in attached)? The difference is 2.7mm exactly. Right now I'm right under the (bottom) seam so if its the former, that's 3mm. If it's the latter, need to pull them again (and order new float needles while I'm at it). Attaching a pic of carb #1's clear tube test. Other carbs are at the same level.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2023, 10:57:27 PM by Jonm99 »
1977 cb750k with original airbox, PD41a carbs, slow jets=35, main jets=120, Delkevic 4in1 headers, 18" Cone engineering QC muffler, 7" headlight, dynatek ignition, ss r/r, clip ons, and ebc front brake rotor. All the rest stock, for now. First restoration, lots to learn!

Offline scottly

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2023, 09:36:57 AM »
The red arrow is correct. Since you are doing this on the bench, check the operation of the accelerator pump while you are at it. Also, how high above the carbs is your "slave tank", or whatever you are using to supply fuel during testing?
Also, read this thread about using a glass instead of the actual float bowl:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,182751.msg2115116.html#msg2115116
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 09:47:09 AM by scottly »
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Offline scottly

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2023, 11:00:22 PM »
I took a good look at my set of K7 PD carbs, and noticed the float chamber is completely sealed, except for the over-flow/vent tubes. The problem when using the clear tube is that the vent is "plugged" with the tube full of gas, so any air in the bowl is trapped, hindering the flow of gas into the bowl. The easiest solution would be to loosen the bowl screws just enough to vent the chamber when doing the clear tube test.
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #69 on: September 30, 2023, 03:59:00 AM »
Holy... but why not use my method? What you need, is a volunteer, a K7 owner or maybe more than one, to drain the floatchambers and measure the quantity, to establish a reference for once and for all. That method gives a good indication if, I repeat, if there is something that may need to be adressed. The method is proven and foolproof. No need to disassemble anything, that is: not before a diagnosis is made. In my book diagnosing comes first. Here's the method, be it for the CB500/550 with oldstyle carbs, but the principle can be applied for all models. Just make sure bike is on the center stand and check which fuelline feeds which carbs. Piece of cake.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,185754.msg2151647.html#msg2151647
Oh... and don't persue a 1mm accuracy; you will never ever notice a difference with 1mm +/-.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 04:00:36 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline Jonm99

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #70 on: September 30, 2023, 09:10:47 AM »
All 4 carbs are about 3mm under the mating surface, so don't think I need to pull them again, but I do like the idea of using a glass to check fuel levels! Will definitely keep that one in mind for the next time.

Height of the reserve tank vis a vie carbs on the bench is the same as the on bike setup (actually using main tank and tube).

Anyway, just let it run again for about 10 minutes (didn't ride it), same result. Starts cold, idles smoothly, sounds good, but smoking heavily from the breather and exhaust...with an oily electrode on plug #1.

Since we've gone through all of the usual suspects (new fuel, new oil, new plugs, valve adjustment, carb adjustment) and still no change, I suppose the only thing left to do is a leak down test (still working on that one). In the meantime, I had a retired Ducati mechanic take a look at the bike (he's an experienced old timer as far as I know)... as far as he's concerned, it's engine blow by from worn / damaged rings, pistons or worse, cylinder (it only took him a 30 second look at the bike to make that conclusion, for what it's worth).
« Last Edit: October 01, 2023, 10:34:17 AM by Jonm99 »
1977 cb750k with original airbox, PD41a carbs, slow jets=35, main jets=120, Delkevic 4in1 headers, 18" Cone engineering QC muffler, 7" headlight, dynatek ignition, ss r/r, clip ons, and ebc front brake rotor. All the rest stock, for now. First restoration, lots to learn!

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #71 on: September 30, 2023, 06:34:17 PM »
I took a good look at my set of K7 PD carbs, and noticed the float chamber is completely sealed, except for the over-flow/vent tubes. The problem when using the clear tube is that the vent is "plugged" with the tube full of gas, so any air in the bowl is trapped, hindering the flow of gas into the bowl. The easiest solution would be to loosen the bowl screws just enough to vent the chamber when doing the clear tube test.

The K7's actually have an individual bowl vent for each carb in the form of a very small hole in the carb body while the K8's have a crossover tube connecting the four bowl vents into a common vent at the #2 carb. It took me a minute to realize this when I first encountered a set of K7 carbs since I am more familiar with the K8's.  8)


Since we've gone through all of the usual suspects (new fuel, new oil, new plugs, valve adjustment, carb adjustment) and still no change, I suppose the only thing left to do is a leak down test (still working on that one). In the meantime, I had a retired Ducati mechanic take a look at the bike (he's an experienced old timer as far as I know)... as far as he's concerned, it's engine blow by from worn / damaged rings, pistons or worse, cylinder (it only took him a 30 second look at the bike to make that conclusion, for what it's worth).

That was my first impression as well, but your compression test results seem to rule that out, unless the results from the leakdown test prove otherwise.  ???
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
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http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
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Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
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PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
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Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
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Offline jgger

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #72 on: September 30, 2023, 07:26:08 PM »
A wet/dry compression test can point to rings or bore issues. If little to no change then valves or head / head gasket problem.
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Offline scottly

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #73 on: October 01, 2023, 07:20:37 PM »
Wilbur, I couldn't find any opening or place for the air to vent, other than the overflow tube?

The compression test tells all we need to know regarding the seal of the piston rings and or valves, and Jon's engine passed the test. A leak-down test can only help isolate a failed compression test to the piston rings or valves.
It is possible to burn oil even with a good compression reading, but the symptoms have all indicated that the "smoke" is more like fuel vapor than smoke, so I won't go there. ;)

     
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Offline Jonm99

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Re: Sudden white smoke from cam cover breather and exhaust
« Reply #74 on: October 02, 2023, 12:09:09 AM »
Wilbur, I couldn't find any opening or place for the air to vent, other than the overflow tube?

The compression test tells all we need to know regarding the seal of the piston rings and or valves, and Jon's engine passed the test. A leak-down test can only help isolate a failed compression test to the piston rings or valves.
It is possible to burn oil even with a good compression reading, but the symptoms have all indicated that the "smoke" is more like fuel vapor than smoke, so I won't go there. ;)

   

Is it possible that the oil itself is sealing (or semi sealing) whatever wear and tear I may have on the rings/piston/cylinder and that is why I am getting a good compression result?

Alternatively, can it be a blown valve stem seal?
1977 cb750k with original airbox, PD41a carbs, slow jets=35, main jets=120, Delkevic 4in1 headers, 18" Cone engineering QC muffler, 7" headlight, dynatek ignition, ss r/r, clip ons, and ebc front brake rotor. All the rest stock, for now. First restoration, lots to learn!