Author Topic: Darksiding  (Read 964 times)

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Offline timtune

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Darksiding
« on: October 12, 2023, 04:27:57 PM »
I'm curious if dark siding is a thing with the CB750.
When I owned a GoldWing lots of guys went to the dark side - using a car tire on the rear. It sounds crazy but I watched lots of GoPro video aimed at the rear wheel and instead of cornering on just the edge , as you would expect, the tire holds the road remarkably well.

Before the flaming starts let me add a bit of context. I'm considering this for my latest project because I want it to have a drag race like look (and probably spend some time doing a few passes at the strip just for grins). Also it's unikely to see many road miles.

So finally my question: Is dark siding a thing with CB750s and if so what sort of tires might be likely to fit the stock rear rim?

Offline Gurp

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2023, 05:03:36 PM »
I went dark side on a vlx 600 before. Definitely hard to get the tires to seat correctly.
I've got a buddy that does it on is 2014 bagger.

For the CB750 idk if you can darkside due to limited width. I know you can lace a 5 with a about 5 inch wide tire on it. But that is still only 130ish mm. People mount 140s on them so maybe something like
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?gclid=Cj0KCQjwsp6pBhCfARIsAD3GZuYoHzgYQjGNtdNaOqPzJcaSuVmSxIOS-16QXpTR8lQSUR6A8ITuL54aAtV_EALw_wcB&tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=Y870B&partnum=38MD6YOTEMP&GCID=C13674x012-tire&KEYWORD=tires.jsp_Yokohama_Y870B_Tire&code=yes&ef_id=Cj0KCQjwsp6pBhCfARIsAD3GZuYoHzgYQjGNtdNaOqPzJcaSuVmSxIOS-16QXpTR8lQSUR6A8ITuL54aAtV_EALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!!!!x!!&gclsrc=aw.ds

But this is all speculation. As I've never ran dark side on a CB750 before.


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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2023, 05:19:31 PM »
This practice was very common in the early 1970s, done by converting the rear wheel to a 16" rim (I laced a bunch of them myself) followed by various 5.00x16 or larger tires being mounted. The limitation was the tire width rubbing against the brake arm on the right side and the chain guard on the left. The brake side isn't hard to modify: just remount it off to the right side of the U-hanger bracket, and if that's not enough it can be bent in a gentle radius away from the tire. For a while there were custom offset rear brake arm mounts, usually in Chopper magazine (or others with similar bents), even chromed ones.

The limitation is really the chain guard. The custom chopper chain guards (a 1" wide chromed strip bent in the profile of the top of the OEM guard, with mounts attached) were commonly used, but aren't much of a 'guard'. On the K0/1 bikes this let a LOT of oil find its way up to make racing stripes down one's left shoulder.

In those days there were not many round-profile 5.00 or 5.10 width tires, though. Today there are, thanks to the grippy needs of modern superbikes (of which this bike WAS the first... ;)  ), so having a rounder profile rear would go a LONG way toward improving the handling and stopping the 'head shake' that is caused by squared rear tires. I'd sure suggest a steering damper if you go that route?
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline Kelly E

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2023, 07:44:55 PM »
The guy I know that does it rides a 3rd generation Honda Magna 750. He said the hardest part after getting the tire mounted was zeroing in on the right tire pressure. He's on his third car tire now and may quit but only because how hard they are to mount.
Never Give Up - Never Surrender

The Rust Bros. Garage Collection
1974 Honda CB 550 K0                                            1971 MGB/GT
1975 Honda CB 400F Super Sport                          1972 MGB/GT
1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD                                   1985 GMC S15
1978 Kawasaki KL 250
1980 Suzuki GS 1100E
1982 Honda CB 900F Super Sport
1983 Honda CB 1100F
1984 Honda VF 700S Sabre
1984 Honda VF 1000F Interceptor
1990 Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans
1994 Kawasaki Concours ZG 1000A9
2005 Harley Davidson Fat Boy

Offline Don R

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2023, 07:54:19 PM »
 I think the big draw on the Goldwings is the mileage you can get from a car tire. Those heavy gl's and Harleys eat tires.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
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Offline timtune

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2023, 08:00:51 PM »
Well it sounded like a good idea. Not sure I'm about to start relacing wheels......

Offline Gurp

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2023, 08:11:29 PM »
The guy I know that does it rides a 3rd generation Honda Magna 750. He said the hardest part after getting the tire mounted was zeroing in on the right tire pressure. He's on his third car tire now and may quit but only because how hard they are to mount.
They are tough to get one.
When I did my shadow 600 it was a huge challenge. If I do it again it's definitely going to be on a mag wheel.

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Offline newday777

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2023, 11:18:23 PM »
Well it sounded like a good idea. Not sure I'm about to start relacing wheels......

Firestone makes a bias ply 4.50x18 Coker tire that will fit.
I have a friend that is building a flattracker CB750 with them on the front(relaced to 18") and on the back like you want to run.
He doesn't have it on the road yet so no report on how it handles with them.

https://www.cokertire.com/tires/450-18-firestone-deluxe-champion-blackwall-tire.html

And so you know, I have over 150,000 miles of Darkside on my wings, first on my 99SE (GL1500) but the 2 shock swingarm wasn't as good for handling as my 08 GL1800 has(@ 140,000 miles DS. I get @ 18,000 miles on Bridgestone Driveguard, but I don't ride like most do either.....I play with the sport bikes in the twisties  8)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2023, 11:28:28 PM by newday777 »
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2023, 06:10:21 AM »
Stu….. is that an OIF Bonneville brake? It looks very nice on there!

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2023, 07:57:49 AM »
Ryan F9 has a good YouTube video on this and cautions that handling is dicey. Of course the comments here show that it is done successfully a lot.
I don't remember tire issues on my 75 GL but that was a much lighter bike than the current GL.
I will stick with MC tires.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline Kelly E

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2023, 09:58:16 AM »
And there's always the chance of having an accident and a sharp insurance adjuster notices the car tire on the back and denies the claim.

Never Give Up - Never Surrender

The Rust Bros. Garage Collection
1974 Honda CB 550 K0                                            1971 MGB/GT
1975 Honda CB 400F Super Sport                          1972 MGB/GT
1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD                                   1985 GMC S15
1978 Kawasaki KL 250
1980 Suzuki GS 1100E
1982 Honda CB 900F Super Sport
1983 Honda CB 1100F
1984 Honda VF 700S Sabre
1984 Honda VF 1000F Interceptor
1990 Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans
1994 Kawasaki Concours ZG 1000A9
2005 Harley Davidson Fat Boy

Offline newday777

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2023, 11:18:08 AM »
And there's always the chance of having an accident and a sharp insurance adjuster notices the car tire on the back and denies the claim.
That is not true.  It's a lie from the naysayers.  There has not been any facts from insurance companies to back it up.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline newday777

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2023, 11:30:27 AM »
Stu….. is that an OIF Bonneville brake? It looks very nice on there!
When he was listing off what he was doing on it before I saw any pictures he did say it was a Triumph hub.
It does look good, nostalgic.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline Kelly E

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2023, 12:49:32 PM »
And there's always the chance of having an accident and a sharp insurance adjuster notices the car tire on the back and denies the claim.
That is not true.  It's a lie from the naysayers.  There has not been any facts from insurance companies to back it up.

It can still happen or has and we don't know about it. A second rate insurance company lawyer could win the case. A car tire is not DOT approved for use on a motorcycle wether you agree with it or not. Personally I don't care what tire people put on their bikes. Some people run the cheapest tires they can get on their bikes. It is not my concern unless their choice endangers me.
Never Give Up - Never Surrender

The Rust Bros. Garage Collection
1974 Honda CB 550 K0                                            1971 MGB/GT
1975 Honda CB 400F Super Sport                          1972 MGB/GT
1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD                                   1985 GMC S15
1978 Kawasaki KL 250
1980 Suzuki GS 1100E
1982 Honda CB 900F Super Sport
1983 Honda CB 1100F
1984 Honda VF 700S Sabre
1984 Honda VF 1000F Interceptor
1990 Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans
1994 Kawasaki Concours ZG 1000A9
2005 Harley Davidson Fat Boy

Offline timtune

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2023, 04:07:03 PM »
Thanks for the Coker tip Stu it looks good.

Offline newday777

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2023, 05:42:01 PM »
Thanks for the Coker tip Stu it looks good.
You are welcome Tim.
So what are your plans on the bike?
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline timtune

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2023, 06:45:57 AM »
To be honest Stu, I'm not sure. I had enough parts collected over the years to build another bike and since I'm retired it keeps me busy. The motor will be shiny polished thing but the rest may be a kind of rat rod. The frame swing arm and tank all have a nice patina that I think should stay. Deciding what bits to polish up now is tough. I typically polish the aluminumto look like chrome so I'm trying to restrain myself. I do want a kind of old's cool look. So drilled my discs and am going to install dual discs. This is the mock so far.

Offline timtune

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2023, 06:46:59 AM »
This pic didn't load

Offline newday777

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2023, 06:57:02 AM »
Good plan.
Is that an old Rickman fairing??
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline britman

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2023, 08:51:46 AM »
I a have a 2005 Triumph Rocket III that I ran a rear car on for a few years. I rode it from Virginia to Eureka Springs Ark. years ago for an R3 gathering and there were several of us there running them.  I have long since gone back to a motorcycle tire on the bike and sadly it get ridden very seldom.  I really can say, I saw very little difference between the two, you have make sure your run the right amount of air in the CT and only problem I ever encountered was in deep road grooves, areas in the highway that have been worn down by large trucks, the bike tended to get really squirrely if ran into them suddenly for some reason....

Offline Don R

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2023, 09:06:50 AM »
 I noticed one of the drag bike shops had listed a front runner car tire as well as slick tires. There is an 18x4.5 but I think the section width is 7" for some reason.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Darksiding
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2023, 06:25:36 PM »
Tim….. do you have a windscreen for the Rickman Fairing?
If not, I have a few extra.