Author Topic: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps  (Read 670 times)

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Offline Redline it

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without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« on: November 23, 2023, 10:40:06 PM »
 from rpm speed by kickstarting and starter speeds alone. i'm at the point of pulling the oil pan off and seeing if oil will be sucked up from the screen pick up tube, and changing the oring and by pass tube.

currently the oil light goes out pretty fast from the starter indication it has pressure at the switch. so much so, that it remains out for an unusual amount of time before it goes on again. and then by 1 kick on the kickstarter, the oil lite goes out and again stays out for an unusual amount of time, like it's got pressure held up somewhere.

if the reducer orifices are plugged, the rest of the lower end should have oil circulation shouldn't they? gears and lower spray locations and crank shaft right? i've read differences here on the amount of oil spray at the valve caps from kicking or starter speeds being pretty low rpm wont cause a drastic spray but maybe a drip, which i think i see but not totally certain. i'm trying to get out of taking things apart any more than has to be. and it got the bike to fire the other night, it's out of time and the points i just guessed at by being exited to get spark after a month of trying, only to then think of the clutch switch might help if i pulled the lever. my other bike starts any way so i'm not used to that functioning. so should i squirt some oil in the top end through the valve caps and then try a start with maybe 1500 rpm for 20 seconds which may produce more of a sign that the oil passages are clear, i'll wait and see what others here think in a day or so. i got another bike in the garage that i could compare to and see what it does with kicks or starter power. anyways thanks and if thanksgiving is tomorrow, have a happy one. party.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2023, 10:42:07 PM by Redline it »

Online newday777

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Re: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2023, 01:12:29 AM »
1st off.....When starting a new topic as you have done here, always include what bike it is you are working on (you didn't put this in an existing project shop thread of your bike for us to be able to look back through even if we'd have been following closely the thread)
and on this type of questions be sure to include what the history of what you have been doing/have done so far, is this a long sleeping bike that you are just trying to start, or like have you done anything inside the motor, how extensive in the motor. Have you taken apart and rebuild the oil pump, primed the oil pump before it was reinstalled?
Have you sand blasted/vapor honed the cases etc as that could cause plugged oil restrictors....
Don't expect everyone to remember what you have or have done when starting a new topic thread.
Have you been imbibing while doing this project?(it's a holiday and many do.....I'm just going by what you have written)

On to your query at hand.....
Are the spark plugs out while you are doing this test?(you seem to have typed this out in haste because of the lack of information given and sort of jumbled wording like getting it to fire off tells me the plugs are in, so cranking speeds will be slower than if plugs are out to test for oil flow in the top of the head.) Oil won't be "spraying " out. Flowing out over the exhaust valve cap thread holes is more the case.

Saying that the oil light goes out pretty fast doesn't give any reference to time, one kick, 10 kicks, 10 seconds of starter motor etc. If it was running before this work?? Was the light going off and on properly?
Have you pressure tested the oil pressure switch? It sounds like possibly the pressure switch may be faulty.
Have you opened the lower oil gallery port to check for oil flow below the head?
So many questions and variables in this topic left out of the equation. Sorry for the drill but all is important.

Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline grcamna2

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Re: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2023, 01:30:26 AM »
Yes,have a nice Thanksgiving.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2023, 12:42:57 PM by grcamna2 »
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Online newday777

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Re: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2023, 09:32:50 AM »
Yes,have a nice Thanksgiving.
Yes what???? You need to make some clarifications
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline Redline it

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Re: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2023, 11:33:21 AM »
1st off.....When starting a new topic as you have done here, always include what bike it is you are working on (you didn't put this in an existing project shop thread of your bike for us to be able to look back through even if we'd have been following closely the thread)
and on this type of questions be sure to include what the history of what you have been doing/have done so far, is this a long sleeping bike that you are just trying to start, or like have you done anything inside the motor, how extensive in the motor. Have you taken apart and rebuild the oil pump, primed the oil pump before it was reinstalled?
Have you sand blasted/vapor honed the cases etc as that could cause plugged oil restrictors....
Don't expect everyone to remember what you have or have done when starting a new topic thread.
Have you been imbibing while doing this project?(it's a holiday and many do.....I'm just going by what you have written)

On to your query at hand.....
Are the spark plugs out while you are doing this test?(you seem to have typed this out in haste because of the lack of information given and sort of jumbled wording like getting it to fire off tells me the plugs are in, so cranking speeds will be slower than if plugs are out to test for oil flow in the top of the head.) Oil won't be "spraying " out. Flowing out over the exhaust valve cap thread holes is more the case.

Saying that the oil light goes out pretty fast doesn't give any reference to time, one kick, 10 kicks, 10 seconds of starter motor etc. If it was running before this work?? Was the light going off and on properly?
Have you pressure tested the oil pressure switch? It sounds like possibly the pressure switch may be faulty.
Have you opened the lower oil gallery port to check for oil flow below the head?
So many questions and variables in this topic left out of the equation. Sorry for the drill but all is important.
thanks for pointing that out, i've only been here this time for only 8 yrs, and sometimes it seems that what i post or how i post generates very few responses some times again. and i certainly don't want to trouble anyone, and lately i've noticed my organization skills have seriously declined and i didn't pay much attention in school. for some reason i did take a picture of the bike i ride or have rode since the beginning of 1980s as an avatar, maybe it's too far away, or it doesn't show up the post is opened, i can see there's a lot of lack of regard of my not being aware of how quite to write as well as the rest of the users here on the site are. please accept my apologies. i read alot here i probably should stick to that and learn how to use the spell check. i donate more here than i can afford maybe in hopes of being more tolerated from plain  mistakes, but i see that isn't really how it works. i'll keep an eye on my ability progress and i'll delete the account before i get on everybody's nerves i hope. i'll post less, and try to include the details and write less about nothing it turns out to be. thanks, at least you mentioned it. now i know. i smoke a lot of beef jerky and salmon, yesterday i put in chuck pot roast sliced in a large propane smoker and at 45 mins it was done, but it let it smoke for a bit more, and the whole thing probably went gaseous and ignited inside, temps were over 700 degrees. by the time i could pull the racks out, it all was charcoal strips. i can't throw em away they were 15 dollars, store bought.  that's what i've been dealing with lately. haha. oh well that's how it works.  to answer about the oil pressure light, after it was off from trying to get it to start, it started and i shut it off fast to check the outside intake and ex valves and it wasn't very oiled. and then kicking it 1 time after the lag, the oil lite went from on to off and stayed off for 15 to 20 seconds. from 1 kick after checking the condition of the oil film in the upper end. that's weird for 1 kick.

oil gallery port? like remove the head? and funny about the oil pressure testing, i noticed a tiny gap on that cover and the oil pressure wire was pinched flat in 2 places from case assembly by the countershaft sprocket. i don't think it's caused any bad connection or short though. i bought the bike 6 months ago red cb400f 1975 on the vin plate, completely stock as it was leaving the showroom floor, 10,500 miles on the odometer. it was complete minus the brake caliper and disc cover, no dents or scratches  and rusty,  it looks as though it was ridden with extreme care, without any maintenance, the rear brakes are worn out, and the front disc has hardly any wear at all, that tells me alot about the original owner, i took the motor out and painted the frame. i took the valve cover off to see if the cam chain was hitting the case. or if the tensioner was seized and it wasn't, it was in the best condition i've ever seen in 4 motors, the cam showed nearly no wear marks in the thrust and carrier bearings. there was sludge in the cam reservoirs like i've never seen before and in the oil pan, it wasn't metal or grity, but possible non detergent oil. i put it back together, didn't paint the motor. i couldn't find any rustoleum appliance epoxy so i used just the black gloss, semi, and satin,  on the frame so i really didn't care about not painting the motor. i didnt' check the gallery on top of the head at the spay bar joint, big mistake while i had the chance. when i put the pan back on the screne pick up oring and the by pass tube were dried and shrunken, and from never ever worrying about the screen oring before. i put it back like it was because i couldn't find another oring that fit. so my plan was to drop the pan again, and see if it's sucking air. but i gotta take the exhause off again to get to the close side unless i find the swivel 1/4in extension. that just occurred to me. it's taken me 6 months to do what should of taken a week to do. i work on it every day. i'm gonna go outside and pull a valve adj cap off of another same bike and with the starter or kicking only i'm gonna compare the amount of oil delivered to the top, if might be the same and if so. i'll just run the newest bike and wing it.

Offline rotortiller

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Re: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2023, 11:47:24 AM »
Sometimes the oil pressure switch gets sluggish, usually they activate a bit faster with hot oil. Even if the oil restrictor was plugged the oil pressure will still quickly bleed off through bearing clearances and other flow paths. Oil is not compressible like the air in a tire lol. The oil system has no hydraulic accumulators I know of.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2023, 12:43:29 PM »
Yes,have a nice Thanksgiving.
Yes what???? You need to make some clarifications

I'm answering to the OP's last sentence Stu.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Online newday777

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Re: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2023, 04:10:16 PM »
Yes,have a nice Thanksgiving.
Yes what???? You need to make some clarifications

I'm answering to the OP's last sentence Stu.
Sorry I missed it wasn't the op replying
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline enwri

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Re: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2023, 02:57:30 AM »
The oil system has no hydraulic accumulators I know of.

Might get a bit of air trapped in the top half of the filter housing, acting like an accumulator. Longer it runs the less air is left in there.
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
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Offline Redline it

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Re: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2023, 06:01:07 AM »
accumulators? spent 30 years on tractors with pretty big accumulators in the cushion hitch, 651, 637, 657 caterpillar scrapers, few years on triple six, 3 axle, they'll walk right up 50% slope like nothing,  anyway, the 400f i'm just gonna wing it. i got spooked by some of the other post that were answered with "how much the cam spray bars put out and how fast motors turn into junk if they're now spraying all kinds of pressure on the top. i got another bike and checked it out and it don't spray any gushes of oil by kicking it over or under the starter speed of cranking, it drips but you gotta look hard, between the flashes of cam lobes  and everything else in the way those drips are hard to see. after it's running the lobes splashing in the oil troffs or reservoirs sling quite bit of oil, but the motor isn't that far yet, it's been sitting for 30 yrs.

asking a question on these boards sometimes gets 20 different answers and you know like i do, the questions vary as wide as 30 different specific problems. sometimes it's best not to ask any opinions, specially if you don't type perfectly or explain in detail enough about what bike and problem you're having. it gets more complex the more people chime in on what happened to them or how they did it before etc. pretty much everybody is a hero in their own world from doing this and that, and some seem to get uptight about trivial matters or lost patience who knows. i'll be spending less time here, it's not that big of a deal, especially when you don't really know who your chatting with. anyways, thanks for the help.

Offline rotortiller

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Re: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2023, 10:14:57 AM »
Quote
accumulators?
Joke lol.  I would not base oil system troubleshooting or a snag on the oil pressure switch reaction time as they are basically an idiot light just like with cars.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2023, 10:19:05 AM by rotortiller »

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: without oil "spraying" out of the open valve caps
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2023, 03:23:16 PM »
Quote
accumulators?
Joke lol.  I would not base oil system troubleshooting or a snag on the oil pressure switch reaction time as they are basically an idiot light just like with cars.

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