Topic: flat rate hours?

[Don R]

 Any guesses or experience on how many hours labor to change out the timing and primary chains from the bottom side on a fully assembled bike? I'll pull the cam out first while it's in the frame. The frame was cut but now has a kit so it's easy out, the top end is fresh with just a couple hundred miles on it, I have Hondabond, gaskets and seals.
 
  I'll pay my dues now for not doing a total overhaul last winter while the top end was off, but it was a barn find and the bike and I were having a rocky relationship. It's a keeper now.
  I'm assuming since the oil pressure has been good and it was rebuilt once before, the bearings will be OK. We will see.
 
 

[bryanj]

1 you have split the cylinders and head unless you use a river link in cam chain
2 i think the frt for a crank was 8 hours

[newday777]

Any guesses or experience on how many hours labor to change out the timing and primary chains from the bottom side on a fully assembled bike? I'll pull the cam out first while it's in the frame. The frame was cut but now has a kit so it's easy out, the top end is fresh with just a couple hundred miles on it, I have Hondabond, gaskets and seals.
 
  I'll pay my dues now for not doing a total overhaul last winter while the top end was off, but it was a barn find and the bike and I were having a rocky relationship. It's a keeper now.
  I'm assuming since the oil pressure has been good and it was rebuilt once before, the bearings will be OK. We will see.
 
 

I don't know the flat rate hrs

I don't like to ASSUME......So I'll deduct, from the "has the frame kit" this is in a CB750?? You didn't say what bike.

After you pull the cam, will you be removing the head and cylinders(do the cylinders come out while in the frame with the kit?)and then easier to remove the cases from the frame to split them on the bench?

Or are you going to leave the cylinders and head on and pull the motor from the frame and split the cases upside down way, leaving the top end in place to replace the chains?

I do hope the relationship gets better and she feels the love you are giving her now....

[Don R]

  Sorry, this is my actual barn find K1 750, called "Rat Race" because it was a drag bike and the 22 bullet hole through the seat.
  It's one of those "do it cheap to make it run and see if it's worth keeping bikes" It's become an it needs just one more thing project until it turned into a full rebuild, one system at a time.
 I just did an in the frame, cylinder hone, new rings and fresh ported head with its old RC315 cam on the 836 and the same rockers so I planned to work from the bottom.
  I'm sure I can pull the crank loose from the rods and leave the pistons in the bores. I'm not as sure that I can fish the new cam chain back past the tensioner and guide to the top from below. But I think I can. My brother and I have pulled the bottom case half before.
  I want to get on it and get it done quick so I can get back on a car project.
 

[MauiK3]

Did I miss that you are removing the engine?

[Don R]

 I'm not a masterful word sculptor. Yes, it has a bolt in frame kit so engine removal will be a whiz. It's on a lift and under a rail hoist so this one-man show can get the weight out of the frame without re-creating my hernia experience. I'll lift the engine out and remove the rolling frame then sit the motor on plywood and 4x6's. I have a custom made (not by me) engine stand but I'm not sure that it will hold the top case with the motor upside down.

[grcamna2]

I'm not a masterful word sculptor. Yes, it has a bolt in frame kit so engine removal will be a whiz. It's on a lift and under a rail hoist so this one-man show can get the weight out of the frame without re-creating my hernia experience. I'll lift the engine out and remove the rolling frame then sit the motor on plywood and 4x6's. I have a custom made (not by me) engine stand but I'm not sure that it will hold the top case with the motor upside down.

I like your plan.

[bryanj]

For workshop time find an early parts book and it will give you an frt ( factory replacement time) for every part, havent got access to my 750 one but the 500 says 6.3 hours for replacing crank, this assumes no sized bolts, all tools and parts to hand and is from first spanner to running again.
When the CX 500 had all the camchain problems i actually managed to fit the modification kit just inside frt but not doing the total job "to the book"

[HondaMan]

I've replaced the cam chain much as you describe:
Step 1. (Modified: forgot a step...) Take out the cam and the top end.
Step 2. Flip the engine over and open it up (that's where the hours are...).
Step 3. Release the rods, then wrap a wire onto the cam chain at the top.
Step 4. Pull the wire thru the tunnel while lifting the crank, use your third and fourth hand to change the chain while holding the crank and moving the [long] wire from the old chain onto the new one, then pull the chain back up (down) thru the tensioner again while dropping the crank onto the extra hands.
Step 5. Put the bottom end back together.
It only takes all of Saturday to do it.

Alternate methods:
Step 10: Remember to change out the primary chains while the other 4 hands are holding the crankshaft and the cam chain parts.

[bryanj]

Hondaman, how does the camchain get through the tensioner mechanism?

[HondaMan]

Hondaman, how does the camchain get through the tensioner mechanism?

Well, first you correct your forgotten step in the post ("remove the top end")...
 
That's what I get for staying up too late too many nights this week. Thanks for noticing!
(In my defense: the place where I work is going out of business next week, and the hours these last 3 weeks have become very, very long there in preparation for getting rid of the inventories - but I am at least getting paid for it!).

[MauiK3]

Sorry to hear about the job situation, best of everything in whatever your next steps will be.

[bryanj]

I know how you feel Mark, 7 days after transfering from truck driving to the firms gate security because of a totaly screwed shoulder the "new" firm that took over 5 years ago have decided to "mothball" what used to be head office and nobody knows what is happening to the 60 trucks, 120 trailers, day and night drivers plus warehouse.
It was planed so well the the pearson doing the feasability study looked at other depots to say there would be parking space on google earth, not noticing the 9 year old warehoue extension built on the space!

[Tracksnblades1]

I know how you feel Mark, 7 days after transfering from truck driving to the firms gate security because of a totaly screwed shoulder the "new" firm that took over 5 years ago have decided to "mothball" what used to be head office and nobody knows what is happening to the 60 trucks, 120 trailers, day and night drivers plus warehouse.
It was planed so well the the pearson doing the feasability study looked at other depots to say there would be parking space on google earth, not noticing the 9 year old warehoue extension built on the space!

It’s the “Device Generation” there not used to going outside…

Hope your situation doesn’t turn in to one like Budwiser’s. Spent a $170,000 to lose $12Billion…

[bryanj]

Well Bud merged with interbrew in uk and called it inbev, the uk site closed the mortlake(london) bud site after it took the magor and preston site 12 months and 1,000's of dumped litres to get the bud brew right.
I know this as the firm i work for does most of the transport from preston and about 50% from magor(wales). Most of the old local breweries have been closed and sold

[HondaMan]

The place that hired me on a whim after the engineering outfit I was in (that folded up from Covid's killing their market) sold reloading equipment. They needed someone to hit the ground running for sorting and managing the range's fired-brass output, turning it into sellable product (this store was inside a local indoor shooting range facility). When I walked up to their machines (out of curiosity more than anything else) they were in dismal shape and ran accordingly. They couldn't keep up with the range's output, so much of the brass was going to scrap at 10% of its sellable value. I was mostly interested in fixing the problem (that's my weakness..), so I accepted a [very] low-paying job (and all the brass I want) so as to both fix up the broken machinery (as I had the time!). The hours were eminently flexible (24-ish per week) and they added a bonus for every 55-gallon drum of sorted (into 1 type) brass I could make, plus I filled in for the store's sales clerk when he went to lunch or was otherwise absent. The operation now makes considerable $$ in the brass section, so they are spinning it off into the range itself as the reloading store closes after this week. Ever since the Covid thing, and with the Ukraine war and now the Israel conflict using up almost 80% of US-made primers (especially rifle types) they have been unable to procure primers and most of the popular powders to sell for almost 3 years. It finally used up all their allocated $$ with less than 2% overall return, and the vendors have indicated it is about to get much worse. So, they threw in the towel, but the amount of work to close things up is easily 5x that of the job itself. This coming weekend, whatever is left at 6PM on Saturday will be almost free. Most of it is RCBS and some Lee press fittings (all those little press parts that people break or lose), as all the powder and 99% of the projectiles are gone. There's a few Dillon press parts left, too

So, if anyone wants any of this stuff, PM me and I'll see if they have it: it is selling for nickels/pennies on the dollar, and any part gone is one I don't have to deal with after Saturday! Looking forward to spending more time in the garage after this week...

[bryanj]

Mark, i wish we still had the firearms in the UK, i had a Lee progressive with 4 different calibers and it never let me down.
Best of luck with projects and time mate.
Did you ever get a boring bar?

[HondaMan]

Mark, i wish we still had the firearms in the UK, i had a Lee progressive with 4 different calibers and it never let me down.
Best of luck with projects and time mate.
Did you ever get a boring bar?

Yeah, I have the Loadmaster progressive, a real accurate and stalwart piece of equipment. It loads everything but 50 BMG or shotshells!

I'm looking at boring bars again: rumors have it that there will be some fallout of the speed shops around here now that the primary drag strip is closing up for good (Bandimere's Raceway). It is just 3 miles from my house. I'm watching to see if some of that equipment comes out for sale.

[bryanj]

A standard van norman 944 will go down to 500 four but not smaller, tooling is cheapish from india mate, Terry in Aus made a table and clamps for doing the bike blocks, im sure he would help out with pics etc