Topic: Carding Brush / Wheel?

[ZTatZAU]

Have any of you guys who may be into gunsmithing, ever tried a carding brush or carding wheel to remove light oxidation to brighten up an engine case, cylinder fins, and/or covers?

If so, how did it work out?

Thanks!  ZT

[beemerbum]

Carding brush? Looking forward to hearing about it

[Nurse Julie]

Carding brush = Wire wheel.

[ZTatZAU]

Carding brush = Wire wheel.

Au contraire ol'chap(ette)!  A carding brush or wheel is much much finer and much much softer than a normal wire wheel.  It is normally used to clean light oxidation from a firearm before bluing, without damaging the metal surface.  It is done with a very light touch at no more than a few hundred rpms in the case of a wheel.

I'm just wondering if anyone has ever tried one on engine cases, covers, or fins to remove light oxidation.

Anyone?  ZT

EDITED due to mis-gendering.  Sorry Julie!

[Tracksnblades1]

Carding brush = Wire wheel.

Au contraire ol'chap(ette)!  A carding brush or wheel is much much finer and much much softer than a normal wire wheel.  It is normally used to clean light oxidation from a firearm before bluing, without damaging the metal surface.  It is done with a very light touch at no more than a few hundred rpms in the case of a wheel.

I'm just wondering if anyone has ever tried one on engine cases, covers, or fins to remove light oxidation.

Anyone?  ZT

EDITED due to mis-gendering.  Sorry Julie!

Did someone remove all the silver paint on your engine..?

New paint last longer in most applications…

Honda’s paint may still the best kept secret…..

[ZTatZAU]

Did someone remove all the silver paint on your engine..?

No!  I don't think so.

New paint last longer in most applications…

That may be so!

Honda’s paint may still the best kept secret…..

OK! So what's the "secret"?

[Tracksnblades1]

The Honda paint is the SECRET….

Not available from Honda….

Have to try to match the color and texture on your own…

[bryanj]

Carding is a process used when turning cotton into contiuous strand and is normaly a stiff backing with short steel pins, used carding pads were often used to clean detritus out of files. My first job was as engineer apprentice in a cotton mill in Lancashire, long closed now

[jonda500]

File cards (special file cleaning wire brushes) have been available for many decades, never seen a rotary version - I would be very gentle if using it on aluminium!
John

[ZTatZAU]

The Honda paint is the SECRET….
Not available from Honda….
Have to try to match the color and texture on your own…

Thanks, Tracksnblades, for letting me in on the secret! 

bryanj & jonda500 - The "carding" brushes you guys are describing are completely different than the carding brushes I was asking about...

Carding is a process used when turning cotton into contiuous strand and is normaly a stiff backing with short steel pins, used carding pads were often used to clean detritus out of files. My first job was as engineer apprentice in a cotton mill in Lancashire, long closed now

bryanj is describing something like this...

Wool Carding (carder's) Brush
https://www.amazon.com/Carders-Felting-Carding-Brushes-Project/dp/B0BFHSH1GM/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?adgrpid=1241348939099039&hvadid=77584475254326&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=101590&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-77584544564480%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=16916_13530420&keywords=carding+brush&qid=1703043426&sr=8-3-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

... which are used in textile mills and/or pet grooming facilities.

while jonda500 is describing...

File cards (special file cleaning wire brushes) have been available for many decades, never seen a rotary version - I would be very gentle if using it on aluminium!
John

...Something like this...
File Card Brush
https://www.amazon.com/File-Card-Brush-Cleaner-Carded/dp/B0BZPFP5VC/ref=asc_df_B0BZPFP5VC&mcid=ea3adb9cd505380d8cfd5a55f02ec58f?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80058322109195&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583657846182071&th=1

which are typically used, as jonda500 explained, to clean the swarth out of files.

Both of these brushes have very short, very stiff bristles that I wouldn't dream of taking to an aluminum surface.

I was asking about carding wheels and brushes like these which are intended for the purpose I mentioned above...

Carding Wheel
https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/paint-metal-prep/abrasives-polishing/.0025-stainless-steel-brushing-wheels/

Carding Brush
https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/paint-metal-prep/abrasives-polishing/gunsmith-carding-brush/

These brushes have very, very soft bristles that are typically only 0.0025" - 0.003" thick and as previously mentioned are used with a very, very light touch and in the case of the wheels, at less than 500 rpm in a rotary tool capable of such speeds; to remove light oxidation from metal surfaces without damaging the surface.  Typically before and during the successive layers in the bluing process on firearms.

Again, I just wondered if anyone here had ever tried using them on engine surfaces and if so, what were the results... but I guess, apparently not!

ZT

[newday777]

ZT all you had to do from the start of this was post those links.......would have saved a bunch of confusion....

[ZTatZAU]

ZT all you had to do from the start of this was post those links.......would have saved a bunch of confusion....

I'm so sorry to have wasted everyone's time Stu, but to be fair, my original post did specifically ask for feedback from... "any of you guys who may be into gunsmithing"... who would have been completely familiar with the carding brushes and wheels I was asking about.

And, as it turned out, anyone not familiar with these specific carding brushes would be ill equipped to offer any feedback whatsoever on my question.

Thanks anyway, for your replies!  On the other hand... I did learn (something?) about the Honda paint secret!   

ZT

[M 750K6]

Prepping for paint on the fins and engine cases, I used fine brass wire wheels for my Dremel. Then a light scuffing with fine wet 'n dry, used dry. They were fine.

I have had terrible luck hanging on to renewed paint on motorbike fins and cases. This time I applied light primer then high temp silver, followed by high temp clear engine lacquer. I was nervous whether the paint and lacquer would react. They didn't and the lacquer appears to have sealed the surface nicely. On the fins, I was nervous about affecting their cooling performance. I only applied high temp silver. I am already seeing some damage to their paint surface after washing the bike with water and car shampoo.

[pjlogue]

I don't think a carding brush/wheel would oomph to remove much oxidation from Aluminum engine cases.  I have used carding brushes to remove the "felt" from newly blued gun parts and the brushes are quite fine and soft.  They may remove light powder from an engine case/cover but will not cut deep enough to clean up old corrosion.  Aluminum Oxide is very tough.  You need to cut through the oxide layer to start removing metal in order to remove oxidation blemmishes.

I have found that the 3M 'scotch bright" wheels for bench grinders are very effective in removing corrosion.  I have used them on fork lowers, engine covers/cases, wheel hubs etc.  You can choose the grit size to suit your needs and do final finish with fine steel wool.

-P.

[jlh3rd]

Have any of you guys who may be into gunsmithing, ever tried a carding brush or carding wheel to remove light oxidation to brighten up an engine case, cylinder fins, and/or covers?

If so, how did it work out?

Thanks!  ZT

thanks for that info , I'm gonna get a carding brush. Not for my engine, but to see if I'll speed up detailing my spokes.
I have a mint , unrestored 550F. I use horse hair brushes for detail work when needed, and shoe polish brushes ( which appear to be horsehair) to help get into the fins better.
You have to be careful with the OEM paint on a 48 year old bike. Although I've found the OEM engine paint is extremely durable, you don't want to be aggressive. It can flake off.
However, I never had oxidation issues on my cylinder fins so I'm not sure how effective my brushes would be for that.
I think the paint comment was only meant to reinforce the point that once the OEM paint is messed up on the fins and painted cases, there is no OEM paint to replace it.

[jlh3rd]

also,
I had good luck using this product to clean and brighten my engine, wheel hubs, oil pan and other hard to access places.
I'm careful about what I use.
I repeat though, my original bike was found in mint condition.
And nothing removes the oxidation that forms under the clear coated aluminum parts ( clutch cover, cam covers, chain case cover). That requires removing that clear coat first.

[MauiK3]

removing corrosion products from aluminum is no easy task, many here get their cases slurry blasted or vapor honed which works great. I used the elbow grease method and new silver paint. Not easy but it seems to hold up well.

[Tracksnblades1]

Just wondering out loud……🙄

[ZTatZAU]

Thanks again everyone... M 750K6, pjlogue, jlh3rd, and MauikK3... I appreciate your thoughtful replies!

Tracksnblades1 asked me, early on in this thread, "Did someone remove all the silver paint on your engine..?" to which I replied, No! I didn't think so.

Actually, I don't think any of the original Honda engine paint has been removed or even damaged.  And I'm not really so sure that I'm seeing any amount of actual oxidation either.  The engine just looks a bit too dull to go with the brand new Yamiya Candy Ruby Red body set I posted about in another thread.  I've recently cleaned the engine with Gunk and it really did a pretty good job but I wonder whether or not a little more elbow grease would help without getting into prepping and repainting or even removing the engine.

I'm hoping the pictures below can help you guys help me with the best course of action to brighten this engine up a bit?

also,
I had good luck using this product to clean and brighten my engine, wheel hubs, oil pan and other hard to access places.
I'm careful about what I use.
I repeat though, my original bike was found in mint condition.
And nothing removes the oxidation that forms under the clear coated aluminum parts ( clutch cover, cam covers, chain case cover). That requires removing that clear coat first.

I appreciate this info jlh3rd, as I'm also planning to relace the wheels with new spokes as others suggested in another of my threads, and while my rims have cleaned up pretty well, the hubs are definitely going to need some TLC.  I wouldn't describe my K1 as anywhere near mint but rather more of a one owner survivor.  Perhaps the product from DK that you used can accomplish the cleaning up that I'd like to achieve.  Please let me know what you think.

Thanks again to all!  ZT

[Tracksnblades1]

If it’s not gasoline damaged, a good car wax will bring it back…

I use Mothers on my old F1. Not because it’s better, it’s just comes off easy.

Even when it accidentally gets on the tires or rubber…

I would avoid any buffing compounds for fear of buffing through what’s left of the very fine coat of 40 year old paint.
Even though 3m makes some for paint that will polish plastic car headlights to like new clear without much effort…

[Don R]

 I have a couple flap wheels that have red Scotchbrite between the 80 grit flaps. They do a good job of removing the compromised case paint and oxidation. I spin them in a battery drill or air powered die grinder.
 This hunk lived outdoors after an unfortunate life. I ran a red scotchbrite type ball over it from harbor freight. It's not great but you should have seen it a minute before.

[grcamna2]

I have a couple flap wheels that have red Scotchbrite between the 80 grit flaps. They do a good job of removing the compromised case paint and oxidation. I spin them in a battery drill or air powered die grinder.
 This hunk lived outdoors after an unfortunate life. I ran a red scotchbrite type ball over it from harbor freight. It's not great but you should have seen it a minute before.

That's a good test for those pads.
What do those Scotchbrite wheels look like ?

[jlh3rd]

Thanks again everyone... M 750K6, pjlogue, jlh3rd, and MauikK3... I appreciate your thoughtful replies!

Tracksnblades1 asked me, early on in this thread, "Did someone remove all the silver paint on your engine..?" to which I replied, No! I didn't think so.

Actually, I don't think any of the original Honda engine paint has been removed or even damaged.  And I'm not really so sure that I'm seeing any amount of actual oxidation either.  The engine just looks a bit too dull to go with the brand new Yamiya Candy Ruby Red body set I posted about in another thread.  I've recently cleaned the engine with Gunk and it really did a pretty good job but I wonder whether or not a little more elbow grease would help without getting into prepping and repainting or even removing the engine.

I'm hoping the pictures below can help you guys help me with the best course of action to brighten this engine up a bit?

also,
I had good luck using this product to clean and brighten my engine, wheel hubs, oil pan and other hard to access places.
I'm careful about what I use.
I repeat though, my original bike was found in mint condition.
And nothing removes the oxidation that forms under the clear coated aluminum parts ( clutch cover, cam covers, chain case cover). That requires removing that clear coat first.

I appreciate this info jlh3rd, as I'm also planning to relace the wheels with new spokes as others suggested in another of my threads, and while my rims have cleaned up pretty well, the hubs are definitely going to need some TLC.  I wouldn't describe my K1 as anywhere near mint but rather more of a one owner survivor.  Perhaps the product from DK that you used can accomplish the cleaning up that I'd like to achieve.  Please let me know what you think.

Thanks again to all!  ZT

If that was my bike, and using what I've learned to keep my bike nice without screwing it up:

I mentioned horse hair brushes but the problem is cleaning the cylinder head and fins without removing paint and those bristles aren't long enough..
So I bought good , not cheapo, paint brushes with fine soft, long bristles.
I'm not pushing Bike Bright but it seems to work well. I took my time working the brush around and in through the fins and the whole engine. I used plenty of the cleaner. Also enabled me to "scrub" wheel hubs reaching through the spokes.
No way to guarantee results. If the paint has been stained or has baked on discoloration, probably stuck with that.
Any residual Gunk left on can discolor the fins when heated, I believe, so rinse it well. I don't use that on my engine.
A good metal polish might get the valve cover, clutch case, sprocket cover, etc looking better.

This is my 48 year old motor with 10,800 miles on it. Bike isn't ridden anymore so that helps. I found this bike in 1994, but gotta say even then, my motor was brighter looking than yours, so you might not get to this stage. But it does show that it might be possible.

[grcamna2]

Very nice looking engine on your 550F  jlh3rd.

[jlh3rd]

thanks....
  elbow grease helped but the reality is that it was already in mint condition.