Topic: favorite cam chain?

[Don R]

 Are there any cam chains available today that are as good as Honda or better, or is the best one the most expensive one? 

[Flyin900]

Don, I don't buy new cam chains and look for NOS originals usually for the smaller SOHC fours not the CB750's. I like the original RK brand chains when I can find them, which is normally in Thailand these days. RK was a supplier to Honda since I don't believe Honda actually made their own chains.

I found this one on Ebay a few years ago for the CB350F/CB400F or the early 60's Sloper twins for $15.00 with the hard to find clip link.

 

[HondaMan]

I've been getting them from eBay (JTMarks'  wife), he had a bunch of the -410- HD versions.
Be sure, though, whatever chain you get, to NOT use those too-thin cam sprockets that are showing up. They are slotted in the bolt holes (and lightened) and only interface with about 70% of the chain's roller width - real thin sprockets!

[PeWe]

Heavy Duty cam chains:
Tsubaki Camellia if you can find one. Green package.
CycleX had not long ago.

DID 219 also "heavy duty", rectangular plates.
Like this. Many sellers in various countries
https://www.getor.de/Timing-chain-endless-219-FTH-or-BF-05-MA-94-links

Endless, there are open version with master link too.


Yamiya has "Yoshimura" type.
https://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=246_21_249_68&products_id=2151

[Nurse Julie]

We fit DID FTH chains to all our engine rebuilds. I also sell a lot of them to customers from my Ebay page / specialist sales platforms etc.

[willbird]

Heavy Duty cam chains:
Tsubaki Camellia if you can find one. Green package.
CycleX had not long ago.

DID 219 also "heavy duty", rectangular plates.
Like this. Many sellers in various countries
https://www.getor.de/Timing-chain-endless-219-FTH-or-BF-05-MA-94-links

Endless, there are open version with master link too.


Yamiya has "Yoshimura" type.
https://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=246_21_249_68&products_id=2151

So is this the heavy duty part name ?? "CAM CHAIN DID 219FTS" is the 219FTS the part number for the heavy duty ?

[Nurse Julie]

Heavy Duty cam chains:
Tsubaki Camellia if you can find one. Green package.
CycleX had not long ago.

DID 219 also "heavy duty", rectangular plates.
Like this. Many sellers in various countries
https://www.getor.de/Timing-chain-endless-219-FTH-or-BF-05-MA-94-links

Endless, there are open version with master link too.


Yamiya has "Yoshimura" type.
https://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=246_21_249_68&products_id=2151

So is this the heavy duty part name ?? "CAM CHAIN DID 219FTS" is the 219FTS the part number for the heavy duty ?

FTS is standard, FTH is heavy duty.

[Tom R]

Anyone ever use Kart chains? Like DID Gold on Gold or Panther chains?
I’ve used the gold on gold chains in my cl175 and gs1100.  So far so good.

[CycleRanger]

Heavy Duty cam chains:
Tsubaki Camellia if you can find one. Green package.
CycleX had not long ago.

DID 219 also "heavy duty", rectangular plates.
Like this. Many sellers in various countries
https://www.getor.de/Timing-chain-endless-219-FTH-or-BF-05-MA-94-links

Endless, there are open version with master link too.


Yamiya has "Yoshimura" type.
https://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=246_21_249_68&products_id=2151

So is this the heavy duty part name ?? "CAM CHAIN DID 219FTS" is the 219FTS the part number for the heavy duty ?

FTS is standard, FTH is heavy duty.

And heavy duty chains may have fitment issues on the cam sprocket.

[Don R]

Anyone ever use Kart chains? Like DID Gold on Gold or Panther chains?
I’ve used the gold on gold chains in my cl175 and gs1100.  So far so good.

 I wondered about the kart chains when I noticed that they were also #219.

[Nurse Julie]

Heavy Duty cam chains:
Tsubaki Camellia if you can find one. Green package.
CycleX had not long ago.

DID 219 also "heavy duty", rectangular plates.
Like this. Many sellers in various countries
https://www.getor.de/Timing-chain-endless-219-FTH-or-BF-05-MA-94-links

Endless, there are open version with master link too.


Yamiya has "Yoshimura" type.
https://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=246_21_249_68&products_id=2151

So is this the heavy duty part name ?? "CAM CHAIN DID 219FTS" is the 219FTS the part number for the heavy duty ?

FTS is standard, FTH is heavy duty.

And heavy duty chains may have fitment issues on the cam sprocket.

The DID Heavy duty cam chains fit the cam sprocket letfecy and have enough clearance through the camchain tunnel casing for 350/400/500/550 and 750 fours as we fit them regularly to all those
engines.

[The Lone Builder]

Where does the DID 219T fit into this? That is what I have on my bike. I hunted through all the receipts from my rebuild and couldn't find one for a cam chain; could this be the original chain as that is what shows on teh parts fiche?

Having opened up the top end (CB750K4) to resolve a burning oil issue, I discovered chewed up cam rollers and guides:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193946.25.html - pics at Post No 38.

I also saw this damage to the chain tunnel - pic (How do I put photos in line here instead of at the bottom?)

It occurs to me that if the chain was rubbing there it might be damaged in some way. Should I replace the chain? What say you?

[bryanj]

That damage is caused by the chain being too loose and yes it needs replacing

[The Lone Builder]

The chain was loose for a short while after the rebuild -–maybe 1-200 kms or less –until someone showed me how to tension it properly; I didn't have that Service Bulletin at the time.

The other thing is the cam chain guide I replaced – the shorter one from CMS – didn't have the ridge along its length like the original; either that or it has been heron away completely. This would have allowed the chain to move sideways as it travelled up and down the channel.

I think I didn't replace it because in stretch terms it was within spec. The replacement will have to be split, because I'm not going any further down here.

[CycleRanger]

And heavy duty chains may have fitment issues on the cam sprocket.

The DID Heavy duty cam chains fit the cam sprocket letfecy and have enough clearance through the camchain tunnel casing for 350/400/500/550 and 750 fours as we fit them regularly to all those
engines.

Ah ok, good to know.
I know some of the twins have issues because of the plastic on the cam sprocket.

[HondaMan]

The chain was loose for a short while after the rebuild -–maybe 1-200 kms or less –until someone showed me how to tension it properly; I didn't have that Service Bulletin at the time.

The other thing is the cam chain guide I replaced – the shorter one from CMS – didn't have the ridge along its length like the original; either that or it has been heron away completely. This would have allowed the chain to move sideways as it travelled up and down the channel.

I think I didn't replace it because in stretch terms it was within spec. The replacement will have to be split, because I'm not going any further down here.

There's lots of confusion about that front slipper, since Honda didn't have it at first, then they did, then they  didn't again. Most of the long ones are found beginning in the New Factory K1 engines and they lasted until the F2/K7, when they [sporadically] disappeared. But: I have rebuilt a K8 engine that had the long one in it (it was factory when I got it), and that K8 had the engine number oriented 90 degrees opposite the usual way.

[Don R]

  This is a mid-year K1 case, I got it out of a barn a couple years ago and got it running but was unaware there was no chain guide in it at all. I adjusted the chain multiple times but of course it didn't work.
 Now I've re-ringed it, honed the cyl. swapped the head to a ported rebuilt one and put in a long guide. I didn't replace the chain which is still noisy, so I bought an EK chain with a rivet link off ebay. I'm not convinced that I want to use it, but it is made in Japan. 
 

[PeWe]

I have an open DID 219 FTH 94 links with master link I bought by mistake. It was very cheap.
I do not dare to use it. It can be very expensive if the riveting is not perfect.

Important to verify that cam chain is endless when order.

If a cam chain is very stretched, engine must have milage for a total refurbish. Primary chains and tensioner are probably too worn too.

[Don R]

 Of course you are correct, the cylinders were honed and Alcoa 836 pistons re-ringed, I put on this ported head that had been rebuilt with springs and retainers. It has RC rods so they will have good bolts and the oil pressure is great in summer with 15W/40 Rotella, that says good bearings and oil pump, the sump stays full and there's only a tiny oil leak. Since I fixed the loose shift stud it shifts great.
  The chains are a worry. I've been talking myself out of splitting the cases but it is true that the German primary chains I was saving for the turbo bike need to go in here.
  A nice 81 GS1100 fell into my lap so I will have a hot rod to ride if this leads into spring. There's a biiiiiig K0 project on the bench today.
 

[PeWe]

German primary chains are really good.
Mine in my K6 have stretched very little in almost 44.000km when measured last time a year ago.
Total slack 65.4mm. (measured several times to be sure)

They were slightly less than 65.0mm when installed.

Not raced, street use.
All dyno visits have tortured them. More than 10 visits, at least 3-4 full power each time.

[willbird]

Has anybody actually SEEN a failure from a cam chain on a SOHC that used a master link ?


Bill

[HondaMan]

Has anybody actually SEEN a failure from a cam chain on a SOHC that used a master link ?


Bill

Yes.
It's not pretty.
It took out the pistons on #1 and #3 with 2 valves in one of them and 1 valve in the other, and split the head over #1 with the face of the intake valve (broke it right off the stem!). The head and crank, along with pistons and 2 rods (we did all 4) had to all be replaced, and the 825cc bores had to go up to 836cc to reuse the cylinders. The link let go on this dragster engine as it hit 2nd gear, probably above 9k RPM from the sound of it on that fine, hot Saturday night.

It made a "whack" sound when it went.

[MRieck]

Cam chains with master links have been used from the factory. The Yamaha triples and Honda CB175's come to mind. Failure is more than likely secondary to improper installation of the master link

[bryanj]

When you think about it all chains have a riveted link, just that they are done at the factory

[MRieck]

When you think about it all chains have a riveted link, just that they are done at the factory

Correct.....what does that say? I have a factory KTM cam chain rivet peening tool......it works perfectly but cost a fortune.

[scottly]

The last straw for me with the '72 Yamaha TX 750 was finding out I needed Yamaha special tool xxx to break the cam chain before the top end could be taken apart to fix Some of the oil leaks, and Yamaha special tool yyy to rivet it back together.

[grcamna2]

The last straw for me with the '72 Yamaha TX 750 was finding out I needed Yamaha special tool xxx to break the cam chain before the top end could be taken apart to fix Some of the oil leaks, and Yamaha special tool yyy to rivet it back together.

I bought a chain breaker/rivet tool for my TX(74' TX500A 180 degree crank,dohc and 8-valve two-piece cyl. head)back in the early 90's which did both chain breaking and riveting the new link back together;the name of the tool manufacturer was Kent Moore.
 I imagine you needed a different tool for the 750.
I sold my TX after a couple years and having done a top-end freshen-up 12,000 miles prior and didn't even need to replace the balance chain,although I was at the end of the adjustment and it was ok at that point.
 I've heard horror stories about the TX750's 'Omni-Phase' balancers/chains.. 
The TX500A ran rode very good for me.