Author Topic: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?  (Read 657 times)

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Offline 88BuckMeister

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Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« on: February 01, 2024, 08:13:43 PM »
This look right to you all? I went by YouTube videos, and wasn't really sure...the manual makes it look completely different. It's on my 75 CB550. Wanna make sure it looks correct. The other thing is that the metal plates had a rounded side and a flat side but no instructions in manual or from the website. It's a Barnett clutch kit. I just put the flats facing outward. And no loctite on the threads? I didn't use any.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2024, 08:16:26 PM by 88BuckMeister »

Offline dave500

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2024, 12:54:02 AM »
so long as youve got the stacking sequence correct itll be ok,and the thrust washers in the correct places?looking at a complete assembly from outside ive got no idea.

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2024, 06:54:54 AM »
It seems we really need Hondaman's book on these half litre SOHC Hondas!!
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline 88BuckMeister

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2024, 07:08:05 AM »
It seems we really need Hondaman's book on these half litre SOHC Hondas!!

I keep hearing legends about this book. Is it really real? Do I need a cowboy hat and a whip to go dog it up in Egypt?

Offline xhevi

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2024, 10:20:21 AM »
It seems we really need Hondaman's book on these half litre SOHC Hondas!!

I keep hearing legends about this book. Is it really real? Do I need a cowboy hat and a whip to go dog it up in Egypt?

I got mine from the comfort of my couch.

Hondaman has a link in his signature how to get the book.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2024, 10:26:39 AM by xhevi »

Online newday777

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2024, 10:24:11 AM »
It seems we really need Hondaman's book on these half litre SOHC Hondas!!

I keep hearing legends about this book. Is it really real? Do I need a cowboy hat and a whip to go dog it up in Egypt?

I got mine from the comfort of my couch.

Amazon!
For the 550?
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline bryanj

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2024, 10:25:33 AM »
Mark is still writing the 500/550 book, which i for one will buy
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline xhevi

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2024, 10:27:50 AM »
I stand corrected then.

I was referring to cb750 book. Did not know a cb550 it's coming up.


Sorry.

Online newday777

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2024, 01:11:44 PM »
I stand corrected then.

I was referring to cb750 book. Did not know a cb550 it's coming up.


Sorry.
Mark is still working on the 500/550 book......
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2024, 08:28:51 PM »
Yep, still working on it for the 500/550.
I finally got a 500 engine about 3 weeks ago, for $75 and an automotive version of my Transistor Ignition for his in-resto Triumph Midget car, thanks to an alert member here who pointed me to it (and he doesn't even live here!).

What slowed my initial progress was the onslaught of 6 CB750 engines that all showed up in early Spring last year. I hadn't expected but 1 or 2 this whole past year! I have the last one on the floor now and an additional whole 750 that also dropped in (June) when its owner came back from the Ukraine battlefields for a while, needing all new crank bearings. Both of these should be done in the next week, then I'll be back to the book again. :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2024, 09:34:01 PM »
This look right to you all? I went by YouTube videos, and wasn't really sure...the manual makes it look completely different. It's on my 75 CB550. Wanna make sure it looks correct. The other thing is that the metal plates had a rounded side and a flat side but no instructions in manual or from the website. It's a Barnett clutch kit. I just put the flats facing outward. And no loctite on the threads? I didn't use any.

It looks better than those uber-thin plates that get sold to too many 500/550 owners, which slip after installation.
There are 2 thicknesses of cork clutch plates out there that will fit into this clutch. There are at least 3 thicknesses of plates being sold to owners of these clutches.
The OEM plates I have measured coming out of the CB550K bikes are 0.121" thick.
Some vendors are selling clutch plates from the CB750 that are the same outer diameter, but are 0.138" thick, like the Barnett plates.
So, if your clutch pack is OEM and you're changing plates, make sure the new stack height is similar to the original one.

There is some argument about the 1977-78 CB550 clutch plates, with some claiming that they are 0.107" thick with stronger springs, and others who said their OEM plates were 0.121" thick like in the 550K. The clutch lifter is the same through all the CB550 engines, so the lifter stroke didn't change.

Since around 2004 or so, Vesrah sells a (cheap) clutch kit that contains springs and cork plates that are 0.107" thick (which fits many post-1980 superbikes with 6+ plates in their clutches), and lately these kits come with stronger springs because the resulting clutch pack is so thin that the plates slip. It is my current belief that the bikes where the claim of OEM plates in those cases being 0.107" thick that are being changed [because they slip] for new plates of 0.107" thickness are repeating the same problem they are attempting to fix, from a previous wrench's mistake. I have not seen any OEM 550K/F that had 0.107" thick cork plates: they were all 0.121"-0.128" thick in all that I have serviced. But, since so many have been mixed up in this century, it might be tricky to try to fix the one you're working on!

Part of the difficulty now is in untangling the cork plates all the vendors have mixed into the 550's (and 500's) realm. The CB500K2 and the CB550K0 (USA) had cork plates which had rhombic-cut shapes to the corks, making them resemble a pinwheel, which was done to increase the slip-time of the clutch upon release of the lever. This was most noted by riders of the CB500K1 versus the CB500K2 bikes because dropping the clutch of the latter one for a dragrace start let everyone know the clutch was slipping for a while before it fully grabbed. The earliest 500 bikes I worked on had the square-cut corks on the plates, while my own 550K1 had the slant-cut version, as one example: the 500K2 bikes that came to my shop surprised me with the slant-cut version. Since the plates dimensionally are the same for either the slant-cut or square-cut corks' faces, the vendors worldwide have simply mixed them together everywhere, claiming them to be correct. If the thickness of the plates are correct, they will work fine when replacing the OEM parts: if they are too thin they will slip unless the spring tension is raised (making a tricky clutch engagement point in the 550) and if they are too thick (like 750 plates of 0.140" dimensions) they can break the pressure plate if one is not careful to tighten the bolts equally and slowly, or else use lighter springs because this thicker stack can make for a heavy lever pull at the handlebars. Some vendors have then stepped in with softer springs for those plates (Vesrah, for one). While all of these parts can be used successfully in these engines, one must know the type of plates being used and the advantage/disadvantage of each version. In my book I will note the OEM dimensions for the clutch plates and stacked heights, for reference. Outside those numbers, the builder is on his own. ;)

Keep in mind, however, that I have not serviced nearly as many 550 bikes as I have 750 bikes: the ratio here is about 10:1 in favor of the 750 (which is in the hundreds, by my estimate). Outside of the clutch the 550 design is similar enough to the 350F/400F to be almost the same engine, just bigger (the 500F is different from these, mainly in the transmission area). In many ways the 500 bottom end resembled Honda's early DOHC 4-cylinder racing engines and the Hawk families of engines while the 550 transmission, in particular, led the way into Honda's future bottom ends.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline dave500

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2024, 12:27:59 AM »
ive been hammering a david silvers clutch kit for years that comes with genuine springs and plates,i have the model with the special double steel plate,im not kidding ive really done some hard launches on this and its never been adjusted since installed in years!

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2024, 03:48:40 PM »
ive been hammering a david silvers clutch kit for years that comes with genuine springs and plates,i have the model with the special double steel plate,im not kidding ive really done some hard launches on this and its never been adjusted since installed in years!

I've only ever seen one 550 (1978 version) with the double-steel sprung plate in its clutch, like the later 750 has. I suspect they were more common 'over there' than here?
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline dave500

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2024, 07:39:44 PM »
yeah ive had three or four of them Mark.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Did I assemble this clutch basket right?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2024, 08:23:20 PM »
This makes me wonder, and now must research, if the non-USA versions were set up differently in their clutches? There were things like that in the 750. I saw a Japanese domestic 760K3 version that came with ALL slant-cut cork plates, brought to USA by a serviceman. He brought it into the shop because he thought the clutch "must be going" because he rode someone else's earlier 750 (a K1 IIRC) and he noted the "crisper clutch" in the older bike. At the time I think I recommended first changing his oil to Castrol XLR instead of the unknown Japanese oil he had (unknown type that smelled REAL bad, which is why I remember this incident) but he wanted me to "check the plates". I had the gasket but not the plates, and pulled the clutch to discover the slant-cut versions like in the CB500K1 bikes, which surprised me(!). This was in 1973, not long before I left IL, and I didn't get to replace those plates. We ordered them, but I left the State before they got in, so my [former] employees had to finish that one.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com