Topic: racing progress

[simon#42]

well i suppose the manufactures go racing to improve the bikes but this is surprising .
last week at the moto3 test at jerez david alonso lapped at 1.43.3 . a moto3 bike is a single cylinder 250 four stroke making around 60hp, that time was three tenths of a second faster than alex crivilles 1999 500 pole lap set on a 180hp 500 two stroke . i knew tyres and frames had improved in 25 years but i didnt think it was this much !

[bwaller]

Yes, that is incredible. Corner speed on the 3's are fun to watch.

I think the GP's will be very interesting again. There are a lot of questions that will be answered in a week!

[seanbarney41]

I am curious what you guys think the role of rider skill plays in these faster lap times?  Are young riders at a higher level than back in the day, or is it all down to technological aids and advances?

[jgger]

I think k it is a bit of both. Also I think that a young rider that doesn't know the pitfalls of the old technology just might have a little less fear. I personally feel that after a 40 year hiatus from street bikes there is a bit of different approach to riding  a newer bike, I can only imagine how that translates to the track.

[simon#42]

No I don’t think riders have improved . The good riders would still be at the front no matter what type of bike they are riding and no matter what era you put them in . It’s just bike and tyre development in the small class that have made the improvements, add electronics and aero in the big class . Road tyres are now so much better than the tyres I raced on and I guess that’s the way it is supposed to be . It’s going to be another great season roll on Saturday and come on Pedro !

[CB750R]

I think MotoGP needs competition in tire manufacturers again. This over heating/low pressure issue would go away so much faster if guys were winning on different style tires than what Michelin keeps bringing. And as seen tire tech is a major influencer of lap times….

Either way this season is going to be very interesting with rookie Pedro, the whole 93/Ducati drama, will Honda and Yamaha get back to form, and it looks like Pecco and Martin are ready to start right where they left last season!

Not only that, Alex Lowes’ pass around the outside at Phillip Island… 🤯

[calj737]

Technology has certainly evolved to make new bikes much more competitive in smaller form factor to vintage larger bikes. But do not discount how much young riders have developed too. They can train on simulators contstantly (even as 10yo at home with PS4 etc) and their athleticism can also be more finely tuned. Time teaches if you choose to learn from it. And I’d expect that today’s athletes are far more fit, limber, and suitably strong in their respective critical areas than yesteryear’s riders were.

There is no discounting talent of course, but hard work beats talent when talents stops working hard. Plenty of examples of that in Pro Sports across all fields. And todays young guns are hungry, motivated, and very well-funded to excel.

[grcamna2]

subscrbed

[simon#42]

Technology has certainly evolved to make new bikes much more competitive in smaller form factor to vintage larger bikes. But do not discount how much young riders have developed too. They can train on simulators contstantly (even as 10yo at home with PS4 etc) and their athleticism can also be more finely tuned. Time teaches if you choose to learn from it. And I’d expect that today’s athletes are far more fit, limber, and suitably strong in their respective critical areas than yesteryear’s riders were.

There is no discounting talent of course, but hard work beats talent when talents stops working hard. Plenty of examples of that in Pro Sports across all fields. And todays young guns are hungry, motivated, and very well-funded to excel.

yes cal well put , everything is much more professional these days but talent can not be taught , you can polish a rider but you cant make him great . i remember when stoner first came to england to race a 125 after the first couple of practice sessions we all bet how long it would take him to get to gps it was that obvious .

[Tim2005]

It is an incredible improvement. Is there a chart anywhere to show the speed comparison over the lap, it would be fascinating to see how the corner speeds compare

[jgger]

Stoner was awsome to watch. Ben Spies was good too,unfortunately he was intimidated by dangerous riders like Somocelli. Simocelli had all the danger of M M without the skill to pull it off, IMHO.

[simon#42]

It is an incredible improvement. Is there a chart anywhere to show the speed comparison over the lap, it would be fascinating to see how the corner speeds compare

its all in the corner speed , this is the improvement . it helps that at jerez you are on the edge of the tyre for most of the lap .
it was a shame about spies he had plenty of speed but he seemed to lack the mental toughness required to be a top motogp rider . having said that boy did he have some bad luck .

[willbird]

No I don’t think riders have improved . The good riders would still be at the front no matter what type of bike they are riding and no matter what era you put them in . It’s just bike and tyre development in the small class that have made the improvements, add electronics and aero in the big class . Road tyres are now so much better than the tyres I raced on and I guess that’s the way it is supposed to be . It’s going to be another great season roll on Saturday and come on Pedro !

I remember reading about them doing "big bang" engines that fired all cylinders on one crank revolution ? It was being talked about in the time frame Wayne Rainey had the accident that ended his career. The commentary was that doing so made the rear wheel lose traction sort of like how anti lock brakes lose traction. So a loss of traction leaned over was intermittent only on the power strokes and thus gave some warning. Well a 250 single has that feature baked right in LOL. Apologies if my terminology is not exactly correct ;-).

Bill

[simon#42]

you are on the right track bill , all two strokes fire every revolution its the timing of the individual cylinders that makes the difference . up untill the late 80s a four cylinder 500 would fire a cylinder every 90 degrees . 1n 89 or 90 (sorry crap memory ) honda changed the firing order to two cylinders firing together every 180 degrees . 1n 92 honda brought out the big bang engine  this engine fired all its cylinders within 70 degrees then did nothing for 290 degrees . the theory was the tyre had longer to recover between firing and would grip better . most riders loved it apart from doohan who won five world championships with the old firing order !  . the aprilia 250s that dominated 250 racing had a v twin engine but both cylinders fired at the same time

[willbird]

you are on the right track bill , all two strokes fire every revolution its the timing of the individual cylinders that makes the difference . up untill the late 80s a four cylinder 500 would fire a cylinder every 90 degrees . 1n 89 or 90 (sorry crap memory ) honda changed the firing order to two cylinders firing together every 180 degrees . 1n 92 honda brought out the big bang engine  this engine fired all its cylinders within 70 degrees then did nothing for 290 degrees . the theory was the tyre had longer to recover between firing and would grip better . most riders loved it apart from doohan who won five world championships with the old firing order !  . the aprilia 250s that dominated 250 racing had a v twin engine but both cylinders fired at the same time

I remember my dad telling that the big 3 tried that on some kind of pushrod  V8 and ripped the crank right out of the bottom of the block :-).