Author Topic: Where do you buy your points from?  (Read 9219 times)

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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2024, 11:03:53 PM »
Where can a person buy just condensers:do auto parts stores have automotive condensers that will work in place of these crappy ones ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
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Offline bryanj

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #76 on: March 14, 2024, 02:24:45 AM »
Not that will fit
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

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Offline newday777

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2024, 08:03:57 AM »
Where can a person buy just condensers:do auto parts stores have automotive condensers that will work in place of these crappy ones ?

South Sound Honda shows the condensers available but call and double check ✔️  #9 Denso brand

https://www.southsoundhonda.com/--xpartsstream#/Honda_Powersports/CB400FA_(76)_SUPER_SPORT_400_FOUR%2c_JPN%2c_VIN%23_CB400F-2000001_TO_CB400F-2008280/POINTS_%2b_SPARK_ADVANCER/12922500-1974-46d0-aeb9-f41cbcc81087/512ce04c-9a17-4d26-b1a5-8c1dee59eb64/y
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #78 on: March 14, 2024, 05:50:09 PM »
Where can a person buy just condensers:do auto parts stores have automotive condensers that will work in place of these crappy ones ?

South Sound Honda shows the condensers available but call and double check ✔️  #9 Denso brand

https://www.southsoundhonda.com/--xpartsstream#/Honda_Powersports/CB400FA_(76)_SUPER_SPORT_400_FOUR%2c_JPN%2c_VIN%23_CB400F-2000001_TO_CB400F-2008280/POINTS_%2b_SPARK_ADVANCER/12922500-1974-46d0-aeb9-f41cbcc81087/512ce04c-9a17-4d26-b1a5-8c1dee59eb64/y

Their DENSO branded condensors actually work, I've used them recently. They should outlast the bike, too.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #79 on: March 14, 2024, 06:52:43 PM »
Where can a person buy just condensers:do auto parts stores have automotive condensers that will work in place of these crappy ones ?

South Sound Honda shows the condensers available but call and double check ✔️  #9 Denso brand

https://www.southsoundhonda.com/--xpartsstream#/Honda_Powersports/CB400FA_(76)_SUPER_SPORT_400_FOUR%2c_JPN%2c_VIN%23_CB400F-2000001_TO_CB400F-2008280/POINTS_%2b_SPARK_ADVANCER/12922500-1974-46d0-aeb9-f41cbcc81087/512ce04c-9a17-4d26-b1a5-8c1dee59eb64/y

Their DENSO branded condensors actually work, I've used them recently. They should outlast the bike, too.

   ???   :) sounds great
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Alan F.

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #80 on: March 15, 2024, 06:49:44 AM »
Alan, just to clarify, the Daiichi points can be made to work ok...it is the Condensors that are total useless garbage...if from China, quite immediately, and if from Japan they will probably last long enough that they get you really far from home.  These are my opinions based on my direct experiences.

And I have seen those tune-up kits before.  They often turn up in stashes of parts that have sat around for a longggg time.  Pretty sure ND was NOT the ebay seller, correct?

ND was not the ebay seller, you are correct.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #81 on: March 16, 2024, 12:23:47 AM »
Where can a person buy just condensers:do auto parts stores have automotive condensers that will work in place of these crappy ones ?

South Sound Honda shows the condensers available but call and double check ✔️  #9 Denso brand

https://www.southsoundhonda.com/--xpartsstream#/Honda_Powersports/CB400FA_(76)_SUPER_SPORT_400_FOUR%2c_JPN%2c_VIN%23_CB400F-2000001_TO_CB400F-2008280/POINTS_%2b_SPARK_ADVANCER/12922500-1974-46d0-aeb9-f41cbcc81087/512ce04c-9a17-4d26-b1a5-8c1dee59eb64/y
All components in my homebuilt transistor ignition, including the condenser (x2) shown in the pic, has cost me less than just one of those ND condensers...
Still working perfectly after some 25 years and never needed to renew breakerpoints thereafter...
« Last Edit: March 16, 2024, 02:55:47 AM by Deltarider »
CB500K2-ED Excel black
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #82 on: March 16, 2024, 12:37:24 AM »
Deltarider, are the condensers mounted on point plate or a cooler place outside?
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #83 on: March 16, 2024, 02:43:49 AM »
They're on the circuitboard inside the box. The OEM condensers are disconnected but still in place.
For a friend's XS650 I'm making a transistor ignition without inbuilt condensers, as his stock condensers are high up near the coils and can be used just as easy.
CB500K2-ED Excel black
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #84 on: March 16, 2024, 02:48:39 AM »
To be more precise: I have made a new one for myself with the yellow condensers - shown in reply #81 - built in a slightly bigger box*. The old box I donate to the friend without the blue condensers, as his stock condensers are in a convenient place to be used.
Oh - and in case you wonder - did I experience any difference between the blue condensers and the yellow ones? The answer: none whatsoever. The blue ones are rated 400V, the yellow ones 630V. I was curious if I could witness any difference. In the primary circuit, voltage doesn't peak higher than 300V anyway. Both the yellow and blue condensers have the same capacity as stock condensers: 0,22 - 0,26 µF.
* It's quite amazing how much space there is between the battery and the side panel to accomodate such a box. The rubber strap is so tight that the box has never moved a mm in all those years.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2024, 03:12:49 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #85 on: March 16, 2024, 07:06:20 AM »
These condensers and ignition box look good Delta.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline PeWe

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #86 on: March 16, 2024, 07:31:11 AM »
No heat that makes life shorter either.
Typical issue for electronics, capacitors vs heat not good.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #87 on: March 16, 2024, 10:09:17 AM »
The heat has always been the reason the condensors are made the way they are: normal electronic condensors (while being MUCH more efficient, like in Delta's setup) cannot withstand being heat-cycled rapidly to as much as 300 degrees F (I've measured close to that much on my own 750 points plate on a hot summer's day here) and then be expected to not alter in value. The automotive versions actually melt the insulator material slightly (used to be wax, now a polymer) but hold it in place so when it cools it is still OK. Typically, after about 1000 miles of use on our bikes the insulation shifts slightly in position and the condensors' value changes: depending on HOW it shifts there might be more, or less, capacitance. That's why the testers developed over the years to check capacitance value and determine if the insulator became damaged. The old wax versions, when left in deep cold for too long, drop in value about 30% until they get heat-cycled some more, which most often restores it to at least the minimum value. Since the SOHC4 capacitors were purposefully mounted sideways to reduce the heat-induced changes, their life can be much extended (in years) by swapping the lower and upper ones regularly, as this will 'flip' over the direction the insulator will move when heated. It's just another way to extend the life of these intelligently-designed (not computer-wrangled) parts.

Electronic capacitors are just made differently, usually more compactly and with more accurate tolerance of the capacitance. A worst-case X7r wrapped-package capacitor, which can take high temperature and low freezing, will shift in capacitance almost 40% over the temperature spread, and will change value as it heats up. Those of you who might remember the old 5-tube AC/DC AM radios remember having to adjust the station dial slightly as they warmed up: the better radios then avoided the use of these cheaper capacitors. But, cheap ones used the X7r temperature range parts because they were 40% the cost of the 'good' ones. I made part of my living in the 1960s and early 1970s "fixing" those venerable, good-sounding radios with better capacitors (and filters) before transistors took over. This was part of that 'tech'.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline PeWe

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2024, 06:33:52 AM »
So these should still be functional?
Found on eBay a few years ago.
I think $25US for the NOS 10-pack.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2024, 07:37:57 PM »
So these should still be functional?
Found on eBay a few years ago.
I think $25US for the NOS 10-pack.


Wow, a gold mine!
Yep, they will still be good. If they are more than 10 years old and unused they will be around 0.20uF on average, so running them for a short while will begin the restoration process outlined above, so as first it might seem like they spark more than your present ones. I'd suggest 'turning them over' after a couple thousand miles (if you're looking for something simple to do one hot afternoon?) by swapping them from the lower to the upper position (i.e., 1-4 to 2-3, etc.) because in these bikes it is the perfect reorientation situation for the little cans. I've long thought about the clever little things like this that TEC was famous for doing: they made a lot of car parts, too, with similar 'tricks'..
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline PeWe

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #90 on: March 18, 2024, 04:10:52 AM »
So these should still be functional?
Found on eBay a few years ago.
I think $25US for the NOS 10-pack.


Wow, a gold mine!
Yep, they will still be good. If they are more than 10 years old and unused they will be around 0.20uF on average, so running them for a short while will begin the restoration process outlined above, so as first it might seem like they spark more than your present ones. I'd suggest 'turning them over' after a couple thousand miles (if you're looking for something simple to do one hot afternoon?) by swapping them from the lower to the upper position (i.e., 1-4 to 2-3, etc.) because in these bikes it is the perfect reorientation situation for the little cans. I've long thought about the clever little things like this that TEC was famous for doing: they made a lot of car parts, too, with similar 'tricks'..
I have got the impression that these were spares in the 70's ;D
Just a guess, no facts ;)
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Alan F.

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #91 on: March 18, 2024, 06:44:19 PM »
A NipponDenso tune up kit arrived from ebay this morning. The condensors look correct, I'm happy with the X22ES-U plugs, but the points included are Diiachi. I'm wondering if there are any visible differences between the new ones and the better quality older ones. I'm not convinced these points came with this kit originally. They have the 3 petal flower logo and are stamped with JAPAN also. Their base plates are steel with a dull finish.

It was not mentioned in the listing that these were not Hitachi or ND points, I'm not sure if I should take issue with the seller or not, can anyone in the know advise?

I'm not too put out if these points are junk, the 4 plugs and 2 condensors price out at about $15 more (based on current ebay low prices) than I paid.

My 2nd ND Tune Up Kit arrived today, same Diiachi Japan points and same plugs as the first kit, only one condenser though, oh well.

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #92 on: March 27, 2024, 10:20:12 AM »
Was considering buying points from DSS but nobody seemed to know what they'd be. I went through my stash here in CDMX and remembered that I had a few points plates that I had kept. Found three, all marked ND, with one set practically new. The 350F that's sitting in PHX runs a little rough (but better after I replaced the worn-to-a-nub points with a set of Daichi I had laying around). Hoping that switching out for ND and doing another tune will help.

Offline Tim2005

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #93 on: March 27, 2024, 03:00:58 PM »
Does anyone know of these points, with packaging branded "P.H.T" and "Motopart"? Any good?

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #94 on: March 27, 2024, 06:07:10 PM »
Does anyone know of these points, with packaging branded "P.H.T" and "Motopart"? Any good?

I can't see a brand name stamp on the top set,but those look like good quality,possibly made by ND?
I can't see much on the bottom set with the blue box.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #95 on: March 27, 2024, 06:41:45 PM »
They look like [what we used to call] "quality" construction, with a wide rivet holding a phenolic (not plastic) rubbing foot, and they have brazed-on points contacts (instead of spot-welded). Those used to be items to look for in a good set of points. Is the pivot material also phenolic? That would be ideal. Many were changed to nylon, which distorted with heat and age, and some were just made into plastic - which cracked after a while, even melted and allowed the spring to push the pivot sideways until the spring shorted out on the pivot shaft itself.

.Yeah, those were the days... :(
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Tim2005

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #96 on: March 28, 2024, 03:15:01 PM »
Yes, I can't see any brand markings on the points themselves either, but I've ordered both sets & will report back later.

hondaman.. "and some were just made into plastic - which cracked after a while, even melted and allowed the spring to push the pivot sideways until the spring shorted out on the pivot shaft itself" yes, I had a set of those once, a long while ago, the bike started running really rough, I thought it was a condensor going, but when I looked I eventually spotted that the pivot bushing had broken up and hence the spring had lost tension so the points themselves were just floating around.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #97 on: March 31, 2024, 08:08:47 PM »
Yes, I can't see any brand markings on the points themselves either, but I've ordered both sets & will report back later.

hondaman.. "and some were just made into plastic - which cracked after a while, even melted and allowed the spring to push the pivot sideways until the spring shorted out on the pivot shaft itself" yes, I had a set of those once, a long while ago, the bike started running really rough, I thought it was a condensor going, but when I looked I eventually spotted that the pivot bushing had broken up and hence the spring had lost tension so the points themselves were just floating around.

Those got spread around pretty well: I first saw them in 1973 in Illinois on a California bike that came in for 'losing top end speed'. The rider was visiting a friend in IL and couldn't reach 65 MPH after Iowa enroute, and the points foot was worn/melted sideways on the #1-4 set, tilting the moving arm. The #2-3 set was still 'straight' but the gap was down to 0.008" from the foot wearing down. He'd had the bike tuned just before he left CA, so in about 1800 miles the new points had self-destructed!

It's a shame with what happened with the Daiichi points from Japan: they were good, and not expensive (condensors, too). China stole them and turned them into junk. Chinese condensors are a waste of materials.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Rayzerman

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #98 on: September 22, 2024, 01:26:02 PM »
https://4into1.com/points-set-left-right-honda-cb350f-cb400f/

Rookie me bought these and never again.  Cheap knock-offs and mounting plates are not flat.  Couldn't get any gap with the right side, had to tweak the plate/bracket to get gap... then plate is not flat the other way, and gap keeps changing as I snug up the screws.... never again.

Ordered a real set.... you can see the little square "punch" marks on the good ones where they have flattened the plates before assembly... so after listening to all the advice here, I managed to order what I think are a good set, not sure of brand.... we'll see when they get here.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Where do you buy your points from?
« Reply #99 on: September 22, 2024, 07:42:59 PM »
https://4into1.com/points-set-left-right-honda-cb350f-cb400f/

Rookie me bought these and never again.  Cheap knock-offs and mounting plates are not flat.  Couldn't get any gap with the right side, had to tweak the plate/bracket to get gap... then plate is not flat the other way, and gap keeps changing as I snug up the screws.... never again.

Ordered a real set.... you can see the little square "punch" marks on the good ones where they have flattened the plates before assembly... so after listening to all the advice here, I managed to order what I think are a good set, not sure of brand.... we'll see when they get here.

Where did you find them?
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com