Topic: Starter issue or just bad battery...again..CB550

[denward17]

No visible deficiencies or smells.

Will try to take apart in the next day or so and respond.

[BenelliSEI]

Den…..That terminal looks fine and what you describe sure sounds like the problem.

Around here we have a local guy that works out of his farm property. Nice little building where all he does are starter motor, generator and alternator rebuilds. Smelly shop, but he does outstanding work. Most of the repair shops in the area bring him “cores” by the basket load.

He usually has my stuff turned around in a day and only does what needs doing. Sniff around a bit and see if there are any shops like that in your area?

[denward17]

Den…..That terminal looks fine and what you describe sure sounds like the problem.

Around here we have a local guy that works out of his farm property. Nice little building where all he does are starter motor, generator and alternator rebuilds. Smelly shop, but he does outstanding work. Most of the repair shops in the area bring him “cores” by the basket load.

He usually has my stuff turned around in a day and only does what needs doing. Sniff around a bit and see if there are any shops like that in your area?

Will check with a local electric auto shop tomorrow.  Good idea, Thanks John.

[scottly]

Is there any free play in the starter shaft, like from a worn bushing?

[denward17]

Is there any free play in the starter shaft, like from a worn bushing?

There is no free play in the starter shaft in any direction.

Is it just worn out brushes?

[grcamna2]

No visible deficiencies or smells.

Will try to take apart in the next day or so and respond.

I hope to hear what you find when the starter is disassembled;make sure to mark the removable end covers with a small pointy punch,to keep them in the correct orientation when you reassemble it.

[HondaMan]

Whenever I rebuild these engines I take the starter's covers (ends) off and clean out the pile of carbon that builds up from the brushes in there. It sometimes shorts out the (+) terminal to the case, which makes for an intermittent short. Then I replace the brushes, if they are too worn down. You can get the brushes from Honda or PartsNmore, among other places.

[scottly]

Is it just worn out brushes?

I have had a Toyota starter that cranked the engine slowly, making me think the battery was on it's last legs. I replaced the battery, and the starter still cranked the engine slowly, so I pulled the starter, which was not an easy job, and found the brushes were worn to a nub. I was able to get replacement brushes from a mom-and-pop automotive electric shop nearby, but they shut down a few years ago.
Rebuild kits are available for the 550 starter, and there are used complete starters for sale on ebay and amazon. You might also consider posting a wanted ad here to see if a member has a starter they can part with.   

[grcamna2]

Bike owners abuse starters by cranking them non-stop,which overheats the internals & melts stuff..
I crank them in short bursts or 5-10 seconds max;if it doesn't start then the engine,etc. needs some help. I like electric & kick start bikes;having both on a bike is a real plus.

[bryanj]

All 500, 550 four starters are the same

[Little_Phil]

I bought a new battery in January for one of my 550s. Convectional Exide wet.
When you had a problem with the first battery I checked mine. 10.7V with the starter spinning. lights on. I do have a relay so that the full voltage available to the coils, thus bypassing some wiring for the ignition.

[denward17]

No visible deficiencies or smells.

Will try to take apart in the next day or so and respond.

I hope to hear what you find when the starter is disassembled;make sure to mark the removable end covers with a small pointy punch,to keep them in the correct orientation when you reassemble it.

There are alignment marks already on the body.....

Here are a few pics from taking the top off.

There is some dust from the brushes, as expected I assume.  Does the brushes need to be changed?

Do I need to completely open up the rest of the starter?

[grcamna2]

This one looks like it's been opened already?  The brushes look fresh,but somehow,not quality/cheap?
Considering what you've been through so far.. if it was me,I would consider getting a known-good spare,used starter(not yet been opened)to see the difference in draw.
You might then compare the two in how they perform,brushes,etc.. or bring them to a quality starter rebuild/auto electric shop to have a trusted tradesman give you their understanding,imo.

[denward17]

Dug a little deeper.....

[scottly]

The armature looks like it has been rubbing on the field pieces; is the bushing in the end-cap worn? Also, the top brush lead in the first pic looks over-heated in one area. The end of the armature shaft looks over-heated as well. I would just get a new starter.

[denward17]

I cleaned it up, put it back together and re-tried on the bike, same thing.

I was thinking of taking to a local starter shop this afternoon, or should I just bite the bullet and look for another starter?

[scottly]

I would just look for another starter.

[bryanj]

Used starter, looking at that pic yours has been severly abused by a po

[scottly]

https://www.ebay.com/b/Starter-Motors-Relays-for-Honda-CB550/177959/bn_21309844

[denward17]

Thanks Guys for the help in troubleshooting, much appreciated.

[scottly]

BTW, I would post a wanted ad here on the forums before resorting to feebay.

[enwri]

It's just the little push in bush that has disintegrated, hook out what's left in the hole and measure it then the shaft then how deep.
you've got to be able to do better than this listing.., they're cheap.
   
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/145155502411

Even if the shaft is a bit worn, as long as the armature can't hit the sides it'll last years.

had another look at the shaft,  maybe give it a bit of a polish too.

or just get a new one...

[Mark1976]

   That starter's trash, the armature be grounding out against the field coils, which causes excessive arcing (polling) and shows up as a slow turning starter, find an other starter.

[grcamna2]

I would just look for another starter.

+1

[denward17]

Got one ordered, a used piece from ebay, hopefully it will work.