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Offline M 750K6

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Carbs(?) Again
« on: April 07, 2024, 04:46:10 AM »
Hi,

CB750K6. I've been following the various topics here, around carb adjustments. I thought I would share my symptoms, to see if there's anything obvious I'm missing...

The bike runs really well after it has slightly warmed up. Throttle roll on, tickover etc. are good. I've only managed one wider throttle plug chop, when the plugs were new. They had some cream / tan coloration, the electrodes looked a little lean. On general running and stop start traffic, when I pull the plugs, they look darker, a little sooty.

Is this normal? I can happily live with this, if it's normal.

My concern is cold starting, the first start of the day. I need full choke, no throttle, then it is unhappy to tickover without some throttle and the choke reduced by perhaps a 1/4. It often only runs on 3, unless i rev it at 3,000rpm. Generally, if I take off, it bogs down and requires a lot of throttle and clutch slip to get going and wants to be on 3 cylinders, until I've done 400yds, but will be fine for the rest of the day, from that point. 

Valve clearances are good. Points gap and timing are good.

I have balanced the carbs and cleaned the carb body channels and needles and jets several times with carb cleaner and compressed air. They've appeared clean each time. The rubber manifolds are decent. I have checked the choke closes on all 4. I've checked float levels (I have looked at how that should be done and think I'm doing it correctly) I vaccuum synch'd the carbs after they were off the last time. Standard airbox and filter and I went back to the old brassware, instead of Keyster, because I couldn't get it to run without bogging down and sooting the plugs (particularly cyls 1 and 2). That seems nicely sorted now, but the cold start issue then surfaced.

To me, it seems at tickover and low throttle: When cold = lean; but when warmed up = a tad rich.

Normal? Anything obvious I have missed?

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2024, 05:36:54 AM »
Are you saying that after 5-10 minutes of warmup, the bike runs fine? Don’t touch it, that’s what people mean when they say the cb750 is “cold blooded”. Only my K1 will ride away cleanly after a one minute warm up. The rest all need at least 3-4 minutes.

The K6 I rode for the first time on Monday is exactly the same. Start easily, but takes a minutes to fire on all four, then a few more to really settle down. As the rings seat on mine, it may improve. I also plan on checking carb sync again, after a few hundred miles. Try a set of DR7EA spark plug to see if you prefer that, but I wouldn’t bother. Your bike sounds perfect.

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2024, 06:11:26 AM »
 :D That's what I wanted to hear! Less than 5 minutes, if I ride through it, keeping below 4,000rpm.

Having found so much wrong with it, I've spent so much time on this bike. I can't help but be hyper sensitive.

Perhaps, I need to just relax and ride it for a year? 👍

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2024, 09:27:36 AM »
Do that!

Online PeWe

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2024, 09:46:40 AM »
Which carbs and jetting?
Stock airbox or other filters?

Exhaust is good flowing 4-1, right?

I'm not an expert. Here what I have seen during my numerous carb jetting and checking rides.

If plug ring (bottom of threads) is black, no problems as long as the ground strap is greyish/tan, isolator not dark, more white is better.

Running higher speed for a while can make the bottom ring to darker grey. 
If ground strap is not grey, more white is lean.

The CB750 carbs K1-K6 can differ.
My stock K6 carbs had needles at 4th notch from top.
Both with my old 836cc with pods, ported head, cam and 4-1 as  my later  K2 running K7 + 0.50mm pistons, K7 cam, stock head, airbox with paper filter or K&N filter and Yamiya no numbers 4-4.

064A  on same bike (K2) must have 3 from top, middle. Needles are richer.
So either too rich needles or main jets.
Only Keihin brass, needles especially.

You can test that on the road. Cruise for a few km with same throttle lift.
Kill switch when you can roll to a parking spot beside the road.
Remove 1 and 4 plugs and look.

Needles in  even speed around 120-130kmh, main jets after 140-150kmh.
Too lean needles give slow response from 70-80kmh on 3-5 th gear.

I should run even speeds in 80, 100,120, 140,160kmh plus full speed.
Kill switch, park and check plugs. Photos with phone can help you to remember.  Write down comments on photos. Speed and jets.

It might be easier to take good photos with plug in sunshine. You'll see when it look as the real plug.

At absolutely full speed, roll off throttle very slow. If bike feels to accelerate, main jet too small, lean.

A good reason for a ride or three!

(My K6 (not stock carbs) has got a few dyno rides where AFR was carefully measured during slow throttle increase in steps with small roll-off at each step, not only full throttle rom low to high, +3000- +9000 rpm
Dyno runs with AFR to be sure.)

Rich needles can be notified at small throttle roll-offs where the rich sounding d-d-d.
Engine can work fine at acceleration when slightly rich. This will soot the plugs at even speed.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 10:12:00 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2024, 03:22:51 PM »
Thanks for your reply, useful pointers.

I have Standard 750K6. Standard bore, carbs, airbox and paper filter. It has the original K6 style exhaust, stamped 341 (4 into 4). Header gaskets are new. Middle notch on the needles. The notch above caused hesitation on rolling on the throttle.

I had to replace carbs 1 and 4. The slides weren't cylindrical and the cylinders were scored. I got 2nd-hand replacements from a K2. All of the brassware (including the air screw) was removed from the incoming carbs and replaced with those from the original carbs, plus the black top gasket. The slides were the same profile. All then vacuum synched. All are at 1 turn out of the pilot/air screw. It idles nicely, set at 1300rpm (although, I don't trust my tacho, I think it reads high). It pulls smoothly and rolls on well, except with the most violent twist of the throttle lower in the rev range, when it seems to try to respond for a second or two, before it then starts accelerating. I never come across this when I'm riding, only when I'm 'testing' set up. So, not a problem. It rolls off the throttle into bends, at higher revs, with none of the surging you mention.

If I'm idling for a while or in traffic, the first 3 or 4 threads of the plugs are black, the insulator is darkish, as are the electrodes. When I'm riding normally, country lanes 50-70mph-ish, 3-7,000rpm mid throttle and some faster overtakes, the threads stay the same, but the insulator gets tan-ish, the electrodes even leaner looking.

No 'd-d-d' noises, nor deceleration popping. I'm finding acceleration is smooth through the rev range in all gears. No flat spots. So, I'm pretty happy with how it runs. It's not as quick as my 850 Commando, but I expected that. It's quick enough though, a more refined acceleration by comparison to the Norton.

It's the cold starting that gave me a nagging doubt, particularly wanting to run on 3 cylinders for the first couple hundred yards, but fine thereafter. Previously, when it was badly sooting the plugs (poor running after 50 miles), it didn't have any problem from cold. So long as I'm not doing any damage, and cold running like this is fairly normal, I am happy to leave it where it is now. It runs well as soon as it's slightly warm and I can ride it long distance without having to clean or replace the plugs.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 03:35:03 PM by M 750K6 »

Online PeWe

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2024, 09:37:48 PM »
My K6 carbs are stamped 086A.
With stock pipes 341 and filter:
Air screw 1 turn out. Minus 1/8 ( a half quarter)
Pilot 40
Needle clip middle
Main jet 105

It needed full choke to start it, reduce to half for 30 sec,
reduce a little more more than half choke the first 10 minutes.
It did not run well without choke the first 10 minutes.

The choke will fully open on all carbs? So the linkage is correctly adjusted.

Easier to start if spin with starter, full choke, kill switch off for 5 sec before the start.

The replacement carbs got the K6 needles?
The older carbs might have different needles.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2024, 12:21:58 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2024, 01:34:21 AM »
Yep, replacement carbs got the K6 needles.

Online newday777

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2024, 02:23:09 AM »
Are you expecting to be able to let it idle at cold start? It won't. The roundtop carbs that the K6 and earlier have don't have a choke high idle cam that the 77-78 PD carbs (and later carbs)have. You have to manually control the cold running throttle speed and not take your hand off the throttle, or add a throttle lock to the hand control.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2024, 02:54:42 AM »
I did wonder, so that's working as expected then. How about running on 3cyls below 3,000rpm? Only for a couple hundred yards.

I start it, reduce choke to 2/3rds, hand on throttle to keep it at 3,000 revs, so it's on all 4. Do that for 30 seconds. Drop revs, into 1st, pick up revs, off the choke, so I don't foul the plugs and slip the clutch for the first 20 to 30yds. The first 20yds it is very reluctant, bogging down and wants to be on 3 cylinders. Then it pulls 1st gear at 3,000 revs no clutch. Initially with the odd miss, but no backfiring. I have 400yds to a T junction. By half way, it's happier. At the T junction it will idle on just the clutch. Pull away and it's fine thereafter, for the rest of the day. But the first bit on the drive and taking off, it wants to run on 3 cylinders and doesn't feel happy to be out!

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2024, 03:48:32 AM »
I did wonder, so that's working as expected then. How about running on 3cyls below 3,000rpm? Only for a couple hundred yards.

I start it, reduce choke to 2/3rds, hand on throttle to keep it at 3,000 revs, so it's on all 4. Do that for 30 seconds. Drop revs, into 1st, pick up revs, off the choke, so I don't foul the plugs and slip the clutch for the first 20 to 30yds. The first 20yds it is very reluctant, bogging down and wants to be on 3 cylinders. Then it pulls 1st gear at 3,000 revs no clutch. Initially with the odd miss, but no backfiring. I have 400yds to a T junction. By half way, it's happier. At the T junction it will idle on just the clutch. Pull away and it's fine thereafter, for the rest of the day. But the first bit on the drive and taking off, it wants to run on 3 cylinders and doesn't feel happy to be out!

You’re not satisfied. I think you’re asking the right questions and you know if 3 cylinders are happy the 4th one should be too. Find out which cylinder isn’t happy and concentrate your efforts on that one. Compare the choke valve closures with the other ones, the bowl fuel level, etc..Find out what is different.

Back when these bikes were new they started instantly cold with the choke and a push of the button. I’ve never fouled a plug from not getting the choke off quick enough after a cold start…my buddy used to ride his stock 75k with the choke on to make lope like the older guys’ cammed up 836s…

A stock, well tuned, pre PD carbs, 750, K or F, will carburate good, at all riding rpms.  Only a snap instant wide open throttle opening below 3,000rpm (sometimes below 3500 on colder days) will result in a complete bog. Later Pd carbs had accelerator pumps, choke fast idle cam, etc, and perhaps leaner mixtures than the older round tops.

Find out why it’s down 1 cylinder cold and then follow PeWe’s advice (sounds like he’s got some methanol fuel experience counting plug thread colors). if you don’t think it’s running right, you’re probably right. If the cold is magnifying the one cylinder’s problem, the same cylinder may not be running as well as the other three “hot” either. And those good three are dragging the 1 cylinder along too. Everything bad is magnified when you’re down a cylinder or more… it has to run on 4 before you can intelligently make changes…don’t give up. Get your magnifying glass out and find out what’s plugged up or different…persevere…😁

Are you near sea level elevation..?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2024, 04:02:57 AM by Tracksnblades1 »
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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2024, 04:08:10 AM »
Have you removed(unscrew) the spark plug caps, tested their resistance and cut 1/4" off the plug wires to expose fresh wire and screw the caps back on??
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Online newday777

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2024, 04:13:50 AM »
Have you removed(unscrew) the spark plug caps, tested their resistance and cut 1/4" off the plug wires to expose fresh wire and screw the caps back on??
Old plug wires are susceptible to ambient moisture leakage. Your running on 3 sounds like electrical leakage.
An old trick in the 60s and 70s was spray silicone on wires and caps to stop spark leaks when you couldn't afford new plug wires and your vehicle died going through a puddle. Same is true with ambient air moisture on cold mornings in wet seasons.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2024, 09:14:24 AM »
I'm 25ft above sea level. I've not touched the plug leads. That's an interesting suggestion. I'll have a go tomorrow. Thanks.

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2024, 09:22:12 AM »
I'm 25ft above sea level. I've not touched the plug leads. That's an interesting suggestion. I'll have a go tomorrow. Thanks.

Before trimming, pull on the end gently. The bad ones just fall off and tell you there was a very poor connection.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2024, 10:35:16 AM »
Prior to my 2013 rebuild of my K2, the #2 cylinder always waited 10-15 seconds to start running (cold) until the other 3 had told it to get with the program. It would run with the choke fully on, but quit as soon as it was cracked open. After it warmed up a minute or so, it was fine.

Then at the rebuild, I installed a [much] later cam, from a K4 with less than 6000 miles on it (mine had lost almost -0.4mm of lift on 2 lobes, intakes both, at 131k miles). The cold start was slightly improved regarding #2, taking only half as long to wake up. But, this has a tradeoff of sorts: it will not pull away smoothly until the engine has run for a full minute, and #2 is always the culprit.

Inside my carbs, the #2 always fills up last. I can remove the float bowls and turn on the fuel, and the 1, 3, 4 carbs immediately dribble while #2 waits about 5-10 seconds (depending on fuel tank level) before dribbling. But, there is a way to make my #2 not do that (nor be cold-blooded): turning the tank's petcock to RESERVE position for cold start and waiting a few seconds, then starting, makes all 4 fire right up. After they will run with the choke off, I turn the petcock to normal run position and it is smooth.

I've witnessed this on a few other 750s I have had in my hands for a long period for full restos, etc. I have noticed in those that the late ones (K5/6) with the single-outlet petcock DON'T exhibit this one-carb-sleepy  behavior, but the late ones are much more cold-blooded, requiring almost 2 minutes to pull away smartly from a cold start.

I might also mention: having the needles in the middle clip position doesn't match the mix profile for HM341 exhausts, if yours is running those. The middle position is for more-open pipes like 4-1, 4-2 or HM300 series pipes. This controls the mixture starting point where the slide takes control of the mixing from the pilot jet's hole as the pilot loses the suction. With the more-open pipes this vacuum point moves lower in RPM, so raising the needle to the middle matches that well (hence that setting in the K0/1 bikes). With slightly more restrictive pipes, raising the needle a notch brings the slide's fuel into play a little sooner when the backpressure starts slowing the intake speed down, so the velocity over the pilot jet's hole drops and it's suction falls off sooner - quite suddenly, I might add. Having the needle too high for the slide's opening causes sooty plugs, quickly.

And, the pilot jet's feed is what causes the stumble (or lack of it) when its mix ratio is different from that which comes out of the needle jet, especially when cold. Most of the time today, the pilot jet's screw seat is wider than when the carbs were made (because everyone keeps tightening that screw and the carb bodies are soft...), so the "1-turn" setting of OEM days now requires a slightly less-open value to match the OEM mixture ratios. My own carbs run at 3/4 turn now, 150k+ miles and 50+ years later. This provides the most seamless transition when cold, especially, and provides less carbon fouling of the sparkplugs when riding in traffic.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Online PeWe

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2024, 10:38:43 AM »
NGK caps are rather fragile and can crack.
When doing a plug check, plug in cap. Dropping it so it collides with engine.
I cracked one that way.
Engine ran good and suddenly bad...
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Galactica

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2024, 11:17:08 AM »
I’ve a K5 that I’ve been resurrecting.  Been through the carb process with a fair number of slide carbs in the past.  These carbs were Mikunis on Kawasaki Z1s and KZs.  Very similar carbs though.  Some had air (pilot) screws and some had fuel screws.  I did one set that had a pumper system.  More recently I resurrected a ‘78 CB750 with pumpers and air screws.  Almost all of the carbs sets I had were stuck solid from being abandoned with the bowls full of fuel.  The resulting varnish from evaporated fuel is very difficult to deal with.

Anyway, back to your issues.  Couple things you can do to help isolate a problem cylinder. 

Get a spray bottle of water and have it close to hand.  Start the bike. Spray each exhaust pipe at the upper bend.  You’ll be able to tell which ones are hotter or colder than others.  Maybe one is even cold.  Another good diagnostic tool is an infrared thermometer.  Cheep at your auto parts store. 

If one is obviously cold or cooler than the others, it’s not firing like the others.  Let’s assume that all of the regular things are ok, valve clearances, timing, points, carb synch, air screws at spec (1 turn out), etc, then it’s most likely either  not getting proper spark or proper fuel. 

If #1 or 4 are cold, switch the plug wires, same with #2 and 3.  If the problem follows the plug lead, you have a problem with that lead.  Check the plug cap.  Check the connection at the wire as noted in a previous post.  Sometimes that connection can get better with temperature.  Check the cap resistance.  Check resistance through the coil with caps on.  Make sure the connection at the plug is good.  Check the plug.

If you’re confident in your spark, then assess the carb on the suspect cylinder.  Double check float bowl levels.  I recommend using the clear tube method.  Use clean stock Honda brass.  Make certain the pilot circuit in the carb body is clean.  Double check synch.

If you’ve done all that, the fun begins.  Often I had to go through the long process of:
Ride
Plug chop
Read plugs
Adjust pilot or fuel screw
And repeat.

On the lift with the K5 I’m working on now, I found the infrared thermometer useful.  I could see temperature changes quickly with small air screw adjustments.  It’s easy though, to worry too much about getting it perfect.  Too many variables with these old bikes to get perfect.

At some point you need to say “good enough for the girls I go with” and just ride it.

Best of luck.

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2024, 02:43:29 PM »
I'm 25ft above sea level. I've not touched the plug leads. That's an interesting suggestion. I'll have a go tomorrow. Thanks.

Before trimming, pull on the end gently. The bad ones just fall off and tell you there was a very poor connection.
When I put the head back together, I checked that and checked they were screwed in tight. Two of them had a 1/4 turn to tight. Still might be worth trimming them though, in case of corrosion etc?

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2024, 03:20:01 PM »
Galactica, PeWe and Hondaman, appreciate your advice.

I can see the point that one cylinder dropping out 1st start of the day, even though it chimes back in within a pretty short distance, suggests one cylinder may not be pulling its full weight.

I rode the bike today. I did what i usually do, down to about 2/3rds choke immediately after starting. Then I decided not to fully turn off the choke until I was about 30yds down my lane. This kept it on all 4 and it was happy to pull off in 1st, without revving and slipping the clutch.

As is now usual, the bike was great the rest of the day.

I mentioned previously, I've put a lot of time into the bike to get it back on the road. Probably 200 hours. As this cold start issue doesn't seem to affect anything else and isn't that unusual, I'm really happy to live with it and ride (and ride some more) this year, hopefully!

I will try the plug leads trim. Can't do any harm and simple to do. Plus, I will also try an 1/8th turn in on the pilot screw, to see if that has any affect on the plugs at idle, without damaging throttle response. Easy to reverse and simple to do. I will however, do my very best to avoid taking the carbs apart again  ;D

Offline willbird

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2024, 08:39:28 AM »
Are you expecting to be able to let it idle at cold start? It won't. The roundtop carbs that the K6 and earlier have don't have a choke high idle cam that the 77-78 PD carbs (and later carbs)have. You have to manually control the cold running throttle speed and not take your hand off the throttle, or add a throttle lock to the hand control.

My K2 came with a built in throttle lock :-). I prefer to let it idle on center stand until I can ride off with choke shut off. Too easy to forget a partially on choke which messes with using the odometer as a fuel gauge :-).

Bill

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2024, 10:48:45 AM »
Set idle screw to 1200 rpm when engine is really warm.

Cold starts will be easier as well as take offs, throttle off braking and city riding in general.
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CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
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http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
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http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2024, 02:43:21 PM »
I'm not convinced my tacho reads accurately. I have it set at 1300rpm (engine up to temp) and that feels the same as my 650 Bandit's 1100rpm tickover. 1,000 rpm on the Honda sounded like a bag of spanners. 1300 sounds nice.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2024, 08:25:13 PM »
You mentioned ^^above^^ that you have the carb needle clips in the 3rd (middle) notch. This will indeed make the K4/5/6 a little more cold-blooded than normal, being slightly more than 1% leaner than normal setting.

Back when (the Earth was still steaming in those days) we used to go to this setting if the owner was particularly bad about shifting too early, driving around town (30 MPH) in 3rd gear, and other such things, which fouled the sparkplugs pretty quickly. Along about the 4th new set of plugs "under warranty" the carbs came off (the hoses were still soft then!), the needles were dropped, and the bikes went back out otherwise unchanged (the last one had many more plug changes before I got assigned to it). This worked, although I noticed a slight 'flat spot' around 3k-3.5k in the throttle roll-on, but none of those 3 customers ever mentioned it. This did solve the early plug fouling issue to their satisfaction, however, and they didn't come back with fouled plugs in mere weeks anymore. One of these guys was over 70 years old, one was in mid-40s (IL) and the 3rd in maybe his thirties: they all rode like 'little old ladies' whenever I saw them. The first 2 I mention here were in Illinois (altitude around 800 feet) and were the K4, while the last one was K5 and here in Colorado at about 5800 feet altitude.

All had 657b series carbs, #105 mainjets and Honda's own paper air filter, HM341 pipes, and I set their idle mix screws at 7/8 turn instead of the normal 1 turn out (very young bikes, here...) and installed D7EA or X22ES-U sparkplugs. The X22ES-U plugs started better cold and up until I quit working at Englewood Honda, never came back again with fouled plugs (which the shop manager said was 'simply amazing').
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline M 750K6

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Re: Carbs(?) Again
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2024, 11:35:01 PM »
Might be something in that. I don't get a lot of traffic, but my local roads have 2 to 3 mile bursts, then 30mph zones through villages, which I take in 3rd or 4th gear.

I live on an island, connected by a tidal causeway (my bikes need washing every ride :-[). My first and last 4 miles are mainly 30mph.

Update: I adjusted the pilot screws, 1/8th turn in, then took it for a long run (non-ethanol fuel). I was still slightly sooty on 1 and 4 and tan possibly a little lean on 2 and 3. So, I've adjusted 2 and 3 out 1/16th and 1 and 4 in 1/16th. I brushed the plugs, to get them cleaner. Will check again next run. If they look promising after that, I'll test on new plugs. I may re-check my timing (again!), as it seems odd they are different in their two pairings.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2024, 11:55:04 PM by M 750K6 »