Author Topic: K1 750 low compression on #2  (Read 570 times)

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Offline Don R

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K1 750 low compression on #2
« on: May 30, 2024, 12:08:14 PM »
 This one has sat a good part of the last 10 years, we've had it running from time to time, rarely seemed right but it has run good. Has a big bore kit, probably an 836. The engine guy (not the PO) remembered doing it but wasn't sure of the CC's.
  The #2 cylinder was cold, we did all of the usual stuff multiple times, then noticed the intake valve had no lash, I adjusted it a small amount to get .003 clearance, still not enough compression. I guess that means bent valve, carbon or rust keeping it open or a sticky stem/guide. 
  Any tips from here? I considered just squirting some lube in by the valve spring and taking it for a ride. The upside is it might loosen up, the downside is something is broken and breaks worse.
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Offline bryanj

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Re: K1 750 low compression on #2
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2024, 12:59:40 PM »
Put some redex in the fuel to lube the guides, or if you want the pretty smell Castrol R.
Unless the valve breaks it cant get worse
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Offline Ksgfx

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Re: K1 750 low compression on #2
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2024, 02:37:35 PM »
I would try to determine if the low compression was rings or valves first. Either by putting some oil in it and testing compression again or doing a leak down test. Might as well narrow it down first before you assume it's the valve. After that then you can focus on a fix.
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Offline Don R

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Re: K1 750 low compression on #2
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2024, 02:56:47 PM »
  The #2 valve had no lash, adjusting it didn't cure it. That doesn't prove the rings are good though.
  I found a leak-down gauge adapter at O'Reilly Auto, they had a set of adapters that included a 12mm. I'll be able to get a better test now.
 
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: K1 750 low compression on #2
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2024, 08:48:46 PM »
In the early K engines (K0-K6) the valves have something of a 'self-healing' capability. If the lash was set too tightly or too much carbon built onto on a valve face, which then led a wrencher to set the lash at 0.002/3" while it was carboned up, followed by riding it some distance and the carbon falling off the valve face, leaves the valve off its seat. (whew...) Then it has poor compression until someone notices the valve has no clearance, and adjusts it for some, followed by about 100 miles [at speed] when it 'heals' itself.

This activity is actually quite visible on the chamber-face of the valves (as shown on page Appendix D-3 of my book) and the resultant pitting of the valve also shown on that page: to 'fix' it, either a very long ride at high (engine) speeds or else removing and refacing the pits out of the valve sealing face will restore it just fine. That particular engine had 126k miles on it and then got parked for 5 years with no prep, and some rust settled into the faces of a couple of the valves. Previously when this sort of 'leaking' started showing up I just planned a long trip with the bike, which is why the picture at the top of the page shows several 'layers' of carbon burned onto the exhaust valves in different outlines. What I had experienced for many years with this bike is: riding it back & forth less than 10 stop-and-go miles one way to work had a tendency to carbon up the valves, most likely due to the jetting being slightly rich (most K1/2 bikes were). To 'blow it out' I would often take weekend rides at [ahem] higher speeds, just to make sure the high end of the speedo still worked OK, and it would be happy again for a week or two. But, after sitting for 5 years I couldn't coax the carbon off the valves that way, hence the teardown at about 126k miles to clean them. After that resto I learned about adding oils to the gas we now have to prevent this sort of thing, and it fares far better.
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Offline Don R

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Re: K1 750 low compression on #2
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2024, 01:35:39 AM »
 I started it today and it ran as smooth as silk for a minute then it ran out of gas and reserve didn't seem to help. It's one of those things that defies logic. The new battery needs to be returned, it has little reserve even after a charge on a quality charger.
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Offline rotortiller

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Re: K1 750 low compression on #2
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2024, 02:57:15 AM »
It depends on how low the compression is. I would make sure it has fuel and spark as these old tanks will run with fairly low compression. If you manage to get the bad cylinder lighting off fuel and creating exhaust pipe heat, drive it for a bit and try a wet compression check to verify the cause. Oil will help seal the rings for a short time bringing up the PSI. It sounds like a fuel supply issue. from the last post.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 02:59:50 AM by rotortiller »

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: K1 750 low compression on #2
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2024, 11:40:42 AM »
  The #2 valve had no lash, adjusting it didn't cure it. That doesn't prove the rings are good though.
  I found a leak-down gauge adapter at O'Reilly Auto, they had a set of adapters that included a 12mm. I'll be able to get a better test now.
 

If it’s the #2 intake valve leaking and the air box is removed, it will spit back through the carb. It will be especially noticeable at a low rpm while purposely slowly accelerating.. You’ll hear it with pods, ovals, or breadboxes without removing them.. The OEM box may attenuate the “spuck spuck spuck” too much…

I’ve tried running excessive valve lash, hoping it would negate the gentle closing ramp and just slam the intake closed to no avail..Only removing the engine, rocker arm, spring, and giving it a spin fixed it..

Vavoline made a special “restore” oil formulated with Cummins to unstick oil rings.. Vavoline has  reformulated the old “restore” oil to unstick the newer Toyota “low tension” oil rings for those that don’t change oil or uses the wrong oil types..
Not saying it’ll help just letting you know Vavoline makes an oil to really clean up Toyota’s “low tension” oil rings..🤔
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 11:44:52 AM by Tracksnblades1 »
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Offline willbird

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Re: K1 750 low compression on #2
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2024, 01:55:29 AM »
  The #2 valve had no lash, adjusting it didn't cure it. That doesn't prove the rings are good though.
  I found a leak-down gauge adapter at O'Reilly Auto, they had a set of adapters that included a 12mm. I'll be able to get a better test now.
 

If it’s the #2 intake valve leaking and the air box is removed, it will spit back through the carb. It will be especially noticeable at a low rpm while purposely slowly accelerating.. You’ll hear it with pods, ovals, or breadboxes without removing them.. The OEM box may attenuate the “spuck spuck spuck” too much…

I’ve tried running excessive valve lash, hoping it would negate the gentle closing ramp and just slam the intake closed to no avail..Only removing the engine, rocker arm, spring, and giving it a spin fixed it..

Vavoline made a special “restore” oil formulated with Cummins to unstick oil rings.. Vavoline has  reformulated the old “restore” oil to unstick the newer Toyota “low tension” oil rings for those that don’t change oil or uses the wrong oil types..
Not saying it’ll help just letting you know Vavoline makes an oil to really clean up Toyota’s “low tension” oil rings..🤔

Lake Speed JR just did a video about this oil, it worked so well that it overwhelmed oil filters, they have a less aggressive one now

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: K1 750 low compression on #2
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2024, 08:16:09 AM »
  The #2 valve had no lash, adjusting it didn't cure it. That doesn't prove the rings are good though.
  I found a leak-down gauge adapter at O'Reilly Auto, they had a set of adapters that included a 12mm. I'll be able to get a better test now.
 

If it’s the #2 intake valve leaking and the air box is removed, it will spit back through the carb. It will be especially noticeable at a low rpm while purposely slowly accelerating.. You’ll hear it with pods, ovals, or breadboxes without removing them.. The OEM box may attenuate the “spuck spuck spuck” too much…

I’ve tried running excessive valve lash, hoping it would negate the gentle closing ramp and just slam the intake closed to no avail..Only removing the engine, rocker arm, spring, and giving it a spin fixed it..

Vavoline made a special “restore” oil formulated with Cummins to unstick oil rings.. Vavoline has  reformulated the old “restore” oil to unstick the newer Toyota “low tension” oil rings for those that don’t change oil or uses the wrong oil types..
Not saying it’ll help just letting you know Vavoline makes an oil to really clean up Toyota’s “low tension” oil rings..🤔

Lake Speed JR just did a video about this oil, it worked so well that it overwhelmed oil filters, they have a less aggressive one now

I haven’t watched the video yet, but the same would happen years ago when owners used non-detergent oils in the full pressurized filtered engines instead of using the recommended detergent oils of the time…At least then you had the option of using up to a 2quart (truck) OEM oil filter instead of just the 1 cup size they have today…

My son’s fiancé bought a late model Toyota that was an oil burner..He used diesel oil in it for a few oil changes and it doesn’t burn any between changes anymore..

One can always change the tiny filters earlier if your experimenting with the restore Vavoline oil..
« Last Edit: June 02, 2024, 08:19:48 AM by Tracksnblades1 »
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: K1 750 low compression on #2
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2024, 06:05:59 PM »
I started it today and it ran as smooth as silk for a minute then it ran out of gas and reserve didn't seem to help. It's one of those things that defies logic. The new battery needs to be returned, it has little reserve even after a charge on a quality charger.

I got one like that, too, came with the owner and his bike. Made in China proudly printed on the side of it, 3 months from its date-of-manufacture. Couldn't crank a 750 for 5 seconds.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com