Author Topic: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question  (Read 1747 times)

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Offline Oddjob

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2024, 10:22:50 AM »
The one pictured looks to be the same as we had at Queenies Bryan.

Offline bryanj

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2024, 04:28:22 PM »
Thats what we had as well, the one on ebay is the single dial one
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2024, 08:28:42 PM »
What I have in mind is a device that simulates running, preferably with a switch so you can bring 'the rpm' up to 6000. So by have it going for 15 min. you'd detect intermittent firing or even quitting and you would know your coil has aged and should be replaced.
I built an ignition tester that can spin the points cam up to 10,000 RPM. ;D

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Offline Deltarider

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2024, 12:30:45 AM »
Wow! That's quite a machinery! I had something electronic in mind that can mimick the switching in the primary circuit up to around 167Hz (10k RPM). You could test a coil's endurance by having the HT leads like in the pic, run it for 15 min. and... create lots of ozon in the process. ;D Aussies, here's your chance!  ;)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2024, 12:52:47 PM by Deltarider »
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2024, 07:46:50 AM »
What I have in mind is a device that simulates running, preferably with a switch so you can bring 'the rpm' up to 6000. So by have it going for 15 min. you'd detect intermittent firing or even quitting and you would know your coil has aged and should be replaced.
I built an ignition tester that can spin the points cam up to 10,000 RPM. ;D

Cool!
I have a leftover servomotor somewhere around here that will go to 15k RPM (if I can find it, from the last century?). It came out of a CNC machine that got new motors in the 1990s. You can buy an inverter now for $100 that will run to 300 Hz, should be enough to get it up to 9k-ish range. Interesting testbench part, no?

The Honda tester we had was about 16" by about 14", about 9" thick/deep. It had the adjustable spark-gap tester under a window and a frequency (RPM) knob next to that. The condensor tester used the same vibrator tube (like in 1950s car radio for making their plate voltage for the tubes) inside to generate high voltage (350-ish volts) for the condensor test. That tube was the item that stopped working after just a winter's season, and we never repaired the tester because we couldn't get that tube.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline Mark1976

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2024, 08:39:13 AM »
What I have in mind is a device that simulates running, preferably with a switch so you can bring 'the rpm' up to 6000. So by have it going for 15 min. you'd detect intermittent firing or even quitting and you would know your coil has aged and should be replaced.
I built an ignition tester that can spin the points cam up to 10,000 RPM. ;D

I gotta try fabbing up one of these, it is such a great idea...
« Last Edit: July 11, 2024, 11:35:10 AM by Mark1976 »
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Offline willbird

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2024, 03:05:26 PM »
What I have in mind is a device that simulates running, preferably with a switch so you can bring 'the rpm' up to 6000. So by have it going for 15 min. you'd detect intermittent firing or even quitting and you would know your coil has aged and should be replaced.
I built an ignition tester that can spin the points cam up to 10,000 RPM. ;D

Cool!
I have a leftover servomotor somewhere around here that will go to 15k RPM (if I can find it, from the last century?). It came out of a CNC machine that got new motors in the 1990s. You can buy an inverter now for $100 that will run to 300 Hz, should be enough to get it up to 9k-ish range. Interesting testbench part, no?

The Honda tester we had was about 16" by about 14", about 9" thick/deep. It had the adjustable spark-gap tester under a window and a frequency (RPM) knob next to that. The condensor tester used the same vibrator tube (like in 1950s car radio for making their plate voltage for the tubes) inside to generate high voltage (350-ish volts) for the condensor test. That tube was the item that stopped working after just a winter's season, and we never repaired the tester because we couldn't get that tube.

I was doodling over the idea of using a V8 GM HEI distro, we used to hook one of the big yellow ACCEL super coils up to one of those. Spinning it with my M18 fuel drill came out to 14,400 SOHC RPM if I did my math right. The HEI distro are not as cheap and plentiful as they used to be but I think I have a couple in a box somewhere.

Bill


Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2024, 03:50:06 PM »
What I have in mind is a device that simulates running, preferably with a switch so you can bring 'the rpm' up to 6000. So by have it going for 15 min. you'd detect intermittent firing or even quitting and you would know your coil has aged and should be replaced.
I built an ignition tester that can spin the points cam up to 10,000 RPM. ;D

Cool!
I have a leftover servomotor somewhere around here that will go to 15k RPM (if I can find it, from the last century?). It came out of a CNC machine that got new motors in the 1990s. You can buy an inverter now for $100 that will run to 300 Hz, should be enough to get it up to 9k-ish range. Interesting testbench part, no?

The Honda tester we had was about 16" by about 14", about 9" thick/deep. It had the adjustable spark-gap tester under a window and a frequency (RPM) knob next to that. The condensor tester used the same vibrator tube (like in 1950s car radio for making their plate voltage for the tubes) inside to generate high voltage (350-ish volts) for the condensor test. That tube was the item that stopped working after just a winter's season, and we never repaired the tester because we couldn't get that tube.

I was doodling over the idea of using a V8 GM HEI distro, we used to hook one of the big yellow ACCEL super coils up to one of those. Spinning it with my M18 fuel drill came out to 14,400 SOHC RPM if I did my math right. The HEI distro are not as cheap and plentiful as they used to be but I think I have a couple in a box somewhere.

Bill

What kind of math was you using? Fuzzy Logic..?
My m18 only specs 2100rpm no load….
Gear box or just multiplying by 8…?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2024, 03:55:38 PM by Tracksnblades1 »
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Offline willbird

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2024, 04:56:17 PM »
What I have in mind is a device that simulates running, preferably with a switch so you can bring 'the rpm' up to 6000. So by have it going for 15 min. you'd detect intermittent firing or even quitting and you would know your coil has aged and should be replaced.
I built an ignition tester that can spin the points cam up to 10,000 RPM. ;D

Cool!
I have a leftover servomotor somewhere around here that will go to 15k RPM (if I can find it, from the last century?). It came out of a CNC machine that got new motors in the 1990s. You can buy an inverter now for $100 that will run to 300 Hz, should be enough to get it up to 9k-ish range. Interesting testbench part, no?

The Honda tester we had was about 16" by about 14", about 9" thick/deep. It had the adjustable spark-gap tester under a window and a frequency (RPM) knob next to that. The condensor tester used the same vibrator tube (like in 1950s car radio for making their plate voltage for the tubes) inside to generate high voltage (350-ish volts) for the condensor test. That tube was the item that stopped working after just a winter's season, and we never repaired the tester because we couldn't get that tube.

I was doodling over the idea of using a V8 GM HEI distro, we used to hook one of the big yellow ACCEL super coils up to one of those. Spinning it with my M18 fuel drill came out to 14,400 SOHC RPM if I did my math right. The HEI distro are not as cheap and plentiful as they used to be but I think I have a couple in a box somewhere.

Bill

What kind of math was you using? Fuzzy Logic..?
My m18 only specs 2100rpm no load….
Gear box or just multiplying by 8…?

2100 rpm times 8 is 16,800. The SOHC fire once per crankshaft revolution, the HEI distro fires 8x per revolution ? So 2100 drill rpm is 16,800 sparks per minute.

I used 1800 drill rpm to get the 14,400 number...the 1800rpm was a number I googled up....I see some different specs for different models.

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2024, 07:44:34 PM »

What kind of math was you using? Fuzzy Logic..?
My m18 only specs 2100rpm no load….
Gear box or just multiplying by 8…?

2100 rpm times 8 is 16,800. The SOHC fire once per crankshaft revolution, the HEI distro fires 8x per revolution ? So 2100 drill rpm is 16,800 sparks per minute.

I used 1800 drill rpm to get the 14,400 number...the 1800rpm was a number I googled up....I see some different specs for different models.
[/quote]

Wouldn’t a Vega/Monza 4cylinder Hei with the reluctor and pickup mounted on the end of the shaft/case be a little easier.. then just 1:1…  The old rotor, cap, internal/external coils aren’t missed by many…

If you’re planning a dual plug head for the sohc750, I’m all ears and all in…😁
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Offline willbird

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2024, 07:57:42 PM »





This was in relation to testing ignition coils, not running a bike.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2024, 04:15:12 AM by willbird »

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2024, 08:24:33 PM »
Its not the time you test ist the max gap
I was told that often you can start your car or bike and everything seems OK and then 10-15 minutes later a coil starts malfunctioning.

My brother's CB500 Four suffered that one summer (1977, I think it was) after we had toured the American West just east of California for over 2 weeks together. After we got back to Denver he rode on across Kansas (100+ degrees each day) and the 500 would not rev above 4400 RPM after 15 minutes or so of runtime. He stopped at every Honda shop he could find along the I-70 corridor, buying parts: new points plate, new plug caps, new sparkplugs. He finally just rode it home 15-20 minutes at a time (4 days to cross Kansas to central Missouri!). About a week later he realized he never tried the coils: new Honda coils fixed it immediately.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2024, 05:20:16 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Deltarider

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2024, 02:29:28 AM »
Its not the time you test ist the max gap
I was told that often you can start your car or bike and everything seems OK and then 10-15 minutes later a coil starts malfunctioning.
I once walked into a workshop dedicated to testing electric automotive parts like starters, alternators and the like. It was an oldfashioned workshop, a 10 min walk from where I lived, with big oldfashioned analogue gauges. I was there to ask something for my yacht's alternator. In the background I heard a high tone and mixed with the smell of electric gear, I also sensed ozon. When we walked towards the bench where the sound came from, I saw an automotive coil being tested. The man explained the ultimate test for a coil is running it for some 15 minutes.
I remember I once have asked Ashimoto (UK forum) this, but he never came with an answer.
Hence my question if nowadays there maybe is a cheap electronic device that can mimick the primary circuit. Would be great if we could evade all these posts about coils for once and for all.
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Offline willbird

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Re: 1975 CB750 Condenser Question
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2024, 04:48:30 AM »
Its not the time you test ist the max gap
I was told that often you can start your car or bike and everything seems OK and then 10-15 minutes later a coil starts malfunctioning.
I once walked into a workshop dedicated to testing electric automotive parts like starters, alternators and the like. It was an oldfashioned workshop, a 10 min walk from where I lived, with big oldfashioned analogue gauges. I was there to ask something for my yacht's alternator. In the background I heard a high tone and mixed with the smell of electric gear, I also sensed ozon. When we walked towards the bench where the sound came from, I saw an automotive coil being tested. The man explained the ultimate test for a coil is running it for some 15 minutes.
I remember I once have asked Ashimoto (UK forum) this, but he never came with an answer.
Hence my question if nowadays there maybe is a cheap electronic device that can mimick the primary circuit. Would be great if we could evade all these posts about coils for once and for all.

Many devices can generate a 5V logic level signal.



Many modern coils have an "igniter" included that will let you drive them directly with that signal. You can also buy that Bosch igniter as a separate part and use it to drive any kind of coil.
There are some OEM parts avail that can be used as coil drivers


But this will work and is way cheaper :-).

https://www.diyautotune.com/product/coil-driver-kit/

many folks in the tuner ECU community will increase dwell time until the coils start to get warm and then back off a bit.

You can buy an arduino clone for about $10, then buy the coil driver kit above and rig up a tester for $20, I was able to borrow the scope from work.

But a junk blown up lawnmower engine that the crank still spins on would give you a set of points you could operate at any rpm too ;-).