Author Topic: Almost there, except for the pipes...  (Read 7068 times)

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Offline newday777

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2024, 05:04:06 PM »
WOW ZT! You are getting them to fit! I have been missing folloing this thread because of the title and my not having hit the notify button early on.
Maybe you should modify the title to "Fitting Busso No Number pipes to K0 restoration" ??
Did you take pictures of the straps in use??
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline ZTatZAU

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2024, 05:58:53 PM »
WOW ZT! You are getting them to fit! I have been missing folloing this thread because of the title and my not having hit the notify button early on.
Maybe you should modify the title to "Fitting Busso No Number pipes to K0 restoration" ??
Did you take pictures of the straps in use??
Thanks Su!  Hope you stay tuned cause I'm not quite there yet.

First, this bike is a K1 750 that I bought new in 1971; not a K0.  And I've been calling this project a resurrection rather than a restoration because... well, it's no where near what I would consider a full blown restoration as there's still quite a few original parts on the bike that aren't in like new, perfect condition.

As for the thread's title, I really didn't want to draw any unnecessary attention to the Busso fiasco out of respect for and in deference to, those still waiting for their Busso orders or believe that posting factual information in a public forum of like minded enthusiasts, will somehow further delay Busso deliveries.  At this point, I personally don't think it matters a whit; but I'll leave the thread title as it is for the reasons stated.

Sorry  No pix of the pulling and tugging.  Best I could find were of the aftermath with the orange ratchet straps in a heap on the lift.  I'm going to need a little pulling to get #3 and 4 where I want them but still not sure how the #4 muffler cut out should sit in relation to the brake pedal... fore and aft as well as laterally.  I'm still hoping someone can help with that.

I'll try to remember to take some pix of the straps in action; but I basically fastened them up just as BenelliSEI described above in this thread.  Thanks again John!

ZT

Offline newday777

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2024, 06:34:13 PM »
👍
Definitely following as I still need to get my set on.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline ZTatZAU

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2024, 07:16:39 PM »
Just for kicks, Stu and Don...

Pick a side, left or right.  Measure and total up the lengths of: the two Busso muffler mounting sleeves/bushings, plus the length of the frame bushing/hole, plus the thickness of the foot peg bracket and compare the total to the length of the OEM mounting bolt.

ZT

Offline newday777

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2024, 07:22:31 PM »
Unfortunately mine will be a while before they come back out of the boxes. Too many other projects ahead of them to be installed.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline Rookster

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2024, 03:05:49 AM »
These are Yamiya no number pipes on my K1.  The seam in the pipe runs right through the center line of the brake pedal bolt.







Scott

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2024, 05:38:12 AM »
ZT…. Following (sporadically). My wife and I are celebrating our 50th wedding anniversary today. I always tell people we “got married when we were 12”. Spending a few days away, with poor internet. I’ll check that muffler to brake gap on my K1 later in the week. That might be another spot to drive in a hardwood wedge, then use a strap to lift the back end of the pipe to align with the peg bushing?

Offline newday777

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2024, 05:42:54 AM »
Happy Anniversary John!
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline ZTatZAU

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2024, 07:35:50 AM »
ZT…. Following (sporadically). My wife and I are celebrating our 50th wedding anniversary today. I always tell people we “got married when we were 12”. Spending a few days away, with poor internet. I’ll check that muffler to brake gap on my K1 later in the week. That might be another spot to drive in a hardwood wedge, then use a strap to lift the back end of the pipe to align with the peg bushing?

Congratulations on your 50th John and enjoy your time away together!

These are Yamiya no number pipes on my K1.  The seam in the pipe runs right through the center line of the brake pedal bolt.
[img]
[img]
[img]
Scott

Thank you kindly, Scott!
Your description and pix are just what I needed and frankly, deep down, have dreaded.

I've been stuck on how am I ever going to move the front end of the muffler down while the rear of the muffler still needs to come up.  John's suggestion makes it sound easy!  Time will tell.

ZT
« Last Edit: October 02, 2024, 07:46:40 AM by ZTatZAU »

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2024, 07:43:02 AM »
Happy anniversary!! In the world we live in, 50 years of marriage is a very small club to be in. My wife and I have been married for 45, we hardly ever run into anyone that has been married longer.
Enjoy your adversary, I'm sure you earned it.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Online grcamna2

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2024, 09:16:52 AM »
Happy Anniversary John!

Happy 50th !!! to you and yours John  :) ;)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2024, 05:40:37 PM »
Thank you gentlemen. We’ve been together since high school and I give the lady credit for getting me this far. Left to my own devices, I may have blown it long ago. She’s also always ridden her own motorcycle! What could possibly be better?

Offline newday777

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2024, 08:29:00 PM »
Thank you gentlemen. We’ve been together since high school and I give the lady credit for getting me this far. Left to my own devices, I may have blown it long ago. She’s also always ridden her own motorcycle! What could possibly be better?
❤️
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline ZTatZAU

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2024, 04:37:04 PM »
Way to go John!  My wife and I have been together for 52 years!  As Mauki said, it's quite an exclusive club and riding together makes good memories!

I may have posted this before, but here's a shot of my wife and I, after winning some kind of gimmick rally, on this same K1 750 back in 1973.



...
Maybe you should modify the title to...
...
? ???  ZT

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2024, 04:44:24 PM »
Congrats to you guys too! Nice to to know we’re not totally unique!!
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 08:06:34 PM by BenelliSEI »

Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2024, 08:08:33 PM »
Reading about your brake pedal to pipe clearance issues. Post some pictures?

Offline newday777

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2024, 08:22:04 PM »
Reading about your brake pedal to pipe clearance issues. Post some pictures?
I agree, post pictures ZT, I'm watching you 👀 😉
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2024, 04:28:00 AM »
ZT…. Following (sporadically). My wife and I are celebrating our 50th wedding anniversary today. I always tell people we “got married when we were 12”. Spending a few days away, with poor internet. I’ll check that muffler to brake gap on my K1 later in the week. That might be another spot to drive in a hardwood wedge, then use a strap to lift the back end of the pipe to align with the peg bushing?

Congratulations and well done….

My best girl friend and I will be celebrating our 43rd this year… I’m thinking she may just be the one…😍
Like you we got married when we were 11 and 12…🤫..
Age Quod Agis

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2024, 06:37:22 AM »
46 years for me this year. We got married as foetus's

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2024, 08:07:02 AM »
+1 beautiful bike, nice job.
The exhaust is a struggle.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline Don R

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2024, 09:26:43 AM »
 I believe all of the guys in the group buy have their pipes now. I'm done kissing butt to get what we were owed a long time ago. They look good once they are installed, and the hiccups worked out but are nowhere as good fitting as Yamiya which are sold out again.
  If I thought there was a ghost of a chance of a resolution, I'd send one of my sets back, the bends at the engine are wrinkled, they probably won't be noticeable installed but that isn't the point. The wrinkled pipe never should have been welded to the mufflers and chromed. 
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
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Offline ZTatZAU

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2024, 05:59:24 PM »
Sorry for the delay in getting back to everyone who posted; but I had a few other ideas to try before posting.  I do realize some of my posts can get long but I really try not to waste any words in getting my thoughts across accurately.

First, Thanks Mauiki!

Next for Stu are the pictures I promised of the ratchet straps "in action".  While this particular setup didn't provide the results I wanted, it did help a lot with the back holes and will give you a good idea of how I'm attaching the straps.  Pretty much like BenelliSEI described above in this thread.

I used clove hitches on the pipes, up front, just ahead of the muffler and tried to avoid forming a choker with the ratchet strap hooks.  Here you can see my overall ratchet strap setup...

Rear Attach Point for this "attempt"...

Front Attach Point... clove hitches...

EDIT: In this attempt I placed a slightly curved 3/16" steel shim plate between the #4 pipe and the brake pedal...
In this attempt I placed a slightly curved 1/16" steel shim plate between the #4 pipe and the brake pedal...

The idea being when the rear was tightened up, the shim plate would provide the requisite clearance under the pedal.  This didn't work because the pipe couldn't slide down and under the shim plate but rather just tightened up the shim between the two parts.  Then when the rear was tightened, everything pivoted about the brake pedal interference point bringing the header pipe out and the rear of the muffler in... taking the connector tubes out of alignment.

I did learn a few things though and hope they might help others.  First is, you don't need heat cycles for these pipes to retain a new "set".  I believe just leaving the tension on the straps overnight will result in the some amount of spring back when the straps are released but a good portion of the newly persuaded positioning will remain.

Second there is a lot of tension involved here.  Be careful and aware of what you're doing, how you're doing it, the stresses involved at your attach points, and what might happen if something comes apart!

I also learned, when tempted to pull against a portion of my lift table for better pulling alignment, that the tensions were high enough to move the motorcycle on the lift rather than make the pipe do what I wanted.  In my case, I noticed the rear wheel was slipping in the table's "tire clamp" attach arms.  Also, pulling straight down on a pipe to the table, I think, could put a large leaning force to buckle a pipe or pull the bike over.  Be carefull out there!

Anyway, I think a large part of my problem, is the less than adequate cut out Busso provided for the #4 pipe to clear the brake pedal.  Comparing the next two photo's, you can see the big difference between the shape and depth of the cutout of my Busso pipe and Rookster's Yamiya pipe.

My Busso #4 Pipe Cutout



Scott's (Rookster) Yamiya #4 Pipe Cutout



I can't say which reproduction cutout more closely resembles the original Honda #4 pipe cutout.
Can anyone else say?

As DonR opined, I doubt Busso would send out another #4 pipe let alone a new set of right hand pipes so another solution must be found.

To that end, I removed the #3 pipe and replaced it with a short 1/2" galvanized pipe nipple, the same length as Busso's #3 muffler 1-1/4" mounting sleeve.  Then tightened the #4 pipe up against the pipe nipple, to get a clear picture of the best case scenario at the brake pedal.  Here's what I found...




The 1-3/4" Maple block under the footpeg, doesn't quite move the pipe down far enough to CLEAR the bottom of the brake pedal.  But I'm not sure the pipe and welded muffler seam can move any more inboard than it is right now.  Unfortunately, as it currently sits, when the maple block is removed, the brake pedal  is dragging on the dished out section on the muffler and/or the inboard side of the welded muffler seam.

I may try a thicker block and see if that helps but I'm also considering a 1/4" spacer... either between #3 and the frame, or between #3 & #4... to bring the #4 muffler outboard 1/4 inch... and let the brake pedal ride in the dished out section of the muffler with the welded seam outboard of the brake pedal bolt.  This of course would make it hard to remove the brake pedal without removing the exhaust but hey, at this point, that may be the best solution.

As for taking a set, with everything relaxed now, the back holes line up nicely and I can push the rear mounting bolt in and out by hand through pipes 3, 4, and the frame.  Now only to deal with the brake pedal clearance problem.

I have considered more pulling, or even cutting the header end, to move the muffler's cutout section aft to provide more clearance, but at this point that would also move the mounting holes further aft than they should be as well.

Comments, suggestions, and advice are welcome!  ZT

PS:  I may have to edit and correct this post as I'm not going to proof read it before pulling the trigger.
I hope all this makes sense and hasn't put you all to sleep.
ZT
« Last Edit: October 27, 2024, 07:10:41 PM by ZTatZAU »

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2024, 06:18:09 PM »
I’m just wondering out loud as I read all the installation tips and ratchet strap techniques and realize it’s the only two games in town…

But….does anyone else wonder whether Honda’s originals or OEM replacements required this much forced persuasion…?

Wondering also whether the pipes ever take a trained set after heat cycles or will they be like a set of green 79 400sbc cast iron exhaust manifolds and never go on again without the same persuasive persuasion of a porta power..?

Coming from someone who could squeeze a ford 300 six bare block length ways hard enough to get the locked bore snap gauge to fall out of the cylinder… Only to find out anyone could squeeze it hard enough to do the same…

How much distortion and stress can the cylinder head take..? 🤔
Age Quod Agis

Offline ZTatZAU

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2024, 06:44:48 PM »
I’m just wondering out loud as I read all the installation tips and ratchet strap techniques and realize it’s the only two games in town…

But….does anyone else wonder whether Honda’s originals or OEM replacements required this much forced persuasion…?
Don't know!  This is my first 4-4 install rodeo.  My only experience is taking off my OEM exhaust in 1972 or or so and can't even remember what happened to them.

Wondering also whether the pipes ever take a trained set after heat cycles or will they be like a set of green 79 400sbc cast iron exhaust manifolds and never go on again without the same persuasive persuasion of a porta power..?

Coming from someone who could squeeze a ford 300 six bare block length ways hard enough to get the locked bore snap gauge to fall out of the cylinder… Only to find out anyone could squeeze it hard enough to do the same…

How much distortion and stress can the cylinder head take..? 🤔

I don't know what to think about any of that TnB!
ZT

Offline newday777

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Re: Almost there, except for the pipes...
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2024, 06:48:12 PM »
As I read through this last post along with your prior post ZT, I also wonder how much stress will this add to the head and also to the frame???
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A