Topic: Almost there, except for the pipes...

[ZTatZAU]

As I read through this last post along with your prior post ZT, I also wonder how much stress will this add to the head and also to the frame???

I don't see a problem with this or any residual stresses.  Everything fails in tension!  And as long as the forces you're applying are generally in line with the longitudinal axis of the pipe, (assuming you're pulling it to the rear), would place a compression force on the head at the bottom of the exhaust port spigot.  At the other end, I'd just want to avoid any bending forces and attach the straps so as to place the frame member or members in a state of straight line compression.  I also visualize the opposing force in the tube you're trying to move, to be the flexibility of the two bends at the front end of the pipes rather than the tensile strength of the tube itself.

The way I see it is, all the movement/alignment I've achieved in the rear mounting sleeves and frame mount, has come from small changes in the radii of these two bends rather than any stretching of the pipe itself.

But what do I know!  I'm just an old fart feeling my way along here.
ZT

[Tracksnblades1]

I may have missed the point, but I don’t think anyone is worried about the stresses imparted on the steel pipes…
Rather the stresses and loads placed on an aluminum cylinder head and short block that was never designed for it…Both having precision bores and somewhat dimensionally stable prior to jacking the pipes into position and then bolting them down under those forces required to achieve alignment…

Do you think Honda pipes required the same…?

[Oddjob]

Genuine Honda pipes fit without any problems, if you have any problems you're fitting them wrong. The Busso pipes are just badly made. I'd imagine the Yamiya pipes also fit without any real problems.

[Tracksnblades1]

That’s what I remember too…

But we were usually taking them (OEM pipes) off and installing aftermarket 4/1s though..

[Oddjob]

Fitted loads of them when in the trade, most were insurance work, dented and scratched etc so were replaced, the rest were mainly warranty work. My dealership even broke a 750K0 just for spares as you couldn't get them for a while. The rest of the bike stood upstairs on the 3rd floor for 20 odd years until it was sold. We even had a CB350K4 still in a crate and it was there until the dealership closed. No idea where it went to.

[Don R]

 Charlie Rice worked at the Local Honda shop before he opened the shop he has now, they sold so many 750 4-1 headers they built a 2x4 rack hanging from the building and started hanging the stock exhausts on it, when it got all the way around the shop the boss had him load them into the shop truck and take them to the scrap yard.

[newday777]

Charlie Rice worked at the Local Honda shop before he opened the shop he has now, they sold so many 750 4-1 headers they built a 2x4 rack hanging from the building and started hanging the stock exhausts on it, when it got all the way around the shop the boss had him load them into the shop truck and take them to the scrap yard.

😒🤧

[ZTatZAU]

Well, I don't think I bent my frame or distorted my cylinders pulling on the pipes, but I did get my Busso No- Stamp 300 style exhausts installed without any cutting, drilling, or grinding.  Bottom line is, I would not recommend the Busso 750 Pipes; and if I knew back then all that I know now, I would have passed on the Busso group buy and ponied up for a set of the Yamiya pipes if and when they became available.

For anyone still following and interested in how I dealt with the right side fitment issue at the brake pedal, you will recall that the less than adequate cutout in the #4 muffler did not provide sufficient clearance for the muffler's top weld seam to clear and tuck in under the bolt in the clamp of the brake pedal.  See Rookster's pix of the Yamiya set above.

I never heard from anyone with a stock K1 to learn where the #4 muffler's weld seam lies in relation to the brake pedal bolt.

With or without wedges in place to bring the weld seam down to clear the pedal, when the rear bolt was tightened, as the #4 pipe moved inward, it would bind up and pivot about the brake pedal (or the wedges) pulling the front of the #4 pipe outward and the rear of the muffler inward which made it impossible to align the balance tubes.

The eventual solution, for me anyway, was to fabricate and insert a 1/4" spacer bushing between the two mounting sleeves of muffler 3 & 4.  This solution results in the #4 muffler's weld seam to be outboard of the brake pedal bolt with the pedal's clamping section to rotate nicely in the dished out section inboard of the seam.  The spacer allows the front of the #4 pipe to tuck in nicely and be parallel with the downward section of the #3 pipe which was wedged in two places to clear the frame and oil pan and at the back the balance tubes lining up very nicely.  The solution required a slightly longer mounting bolt which for now is a 1/2" x 6" inch hex bolt until I get around to modifying a longer 14 mm bolt.











Another fabrication/quality control issue with the Busso pipes is the position/length of the muffler mounting sleeves.  In the following pic, you can see the very small clearance between the peg bracket and the heat shield.  I have NOT cut an indexing notch on the #1 muffler mounting sleeve as this would allow the bracket to contact the heat shield.



On the right side, still with no notch cut in the #4 mounting sleeve, you can see there is a lot more clearance at the heat shield.



I'm still pondering whether or not to cut any indexing notches at all and destroy the chrome surface???

ZT

[Rookster]

Great job ZT.  Your bike looks fantastic. 

Scott

[ZTatZAU]

Great job ZT.  Your bike looks fantastic. 

Scott

Thanks Scott.  You're too kind but I do feel like it's getting there!

Still looking to get it out on the road before it's too cold.  I try not to ride in temperatures (F) less than my age...  I'm 77 today!
But I've got a couple of new issues as I'm getting ready to start it up.

First is, I turned the engine over with the starter and the kill switch on, waiting to see the oil pressure light go out before starting the engine.   The oil light stayed on, even after several five to ten second starter button presses.  Oil was drained from oil tank and crankcase.  Then added two quarts to the tank.  After spinning the motor as described above, oil level on the dipstick went down about 1/3 qt. so I assume the oil pump is moving oil somewhere.  I did have the oil tank off for a while with the hoses disconnected at the engine.  Can the lubrication system be airlocked, lost syphon, or something?  How long should it take to build enough oil pressure to turn off the light with just the starter?  Suggestions welcome.

Second is, I noticed the tach wasn't showing any RPMs while the starter was turning the engine over.  The tach end of the cable is definitely spinning but doesn't drive the tach with the starter spinning the motor with kill switch on.  Is this as it should be?  Will the tach likely come alive when I start the engine?

ZT

[newday777]

Happy Birthday ZT!
Congrats on getting the dam bussocrap pipes on.....
As to oil pressure, did you take off the exhaust side valve adjuster caps to inspect for oil in the cam?
2.
The tach needs lots more spin than the starter does to show any movement.

[Oddjob]

I've heard that taking the oil pump cover off and filling the gaps with vaseline between the rotor and it's corresponding outer part will allow the pump to pull oil up and as it does so the vaseline dissolves. Evidently these motors suffer with air lock if the system has been disturbed.

Oh and nice solution to the clearance problem.

[ZTatZAU]

Happy Birthday ZT!
Congrats on getting the dam bussocrap pipes on.....

Thanks Stu!

As to oil pressure, did you take off the exhaust side valve adjuster caps to inspect for oil in the cam?

No I haven't!  But that sounds like a good idea.  I'll check that next!
Which ones will get oil first?  Or last?

2.
The tach needs lots more spin than the starter does to show any movement.

That's good news!
Thanks!  ZT

[ZTatZAU]

I've heard that taking the oil pump cover off and filling the gaps with vaseline between the rotor and it's corresponding outer part will allow the pump to pull oil up and as it does so the vaseline dissolves. Evidently these motors suffer with air lock if the system has been disturbed.

Oh and nice solution to the clearance problem.

Appreciate the suggestion but I'm glad it didn't come to that.  I took off #1 & 2 exhaust valve caps, shined a flash light in there and hit the starter button to look for oil.  As soon as it started turning, the oil light went out.  So, I put the caps back on and started it up.  For some reason, it took a couple of throttle blips to bring #4 on line; but then everything ran pretty good.

So I went for a ride!  And I've gotta say, I thought the Busso 300 pipes sounded great!   The bike was quite peppy and smooth; just as I remember it.   I'll have to get used to the seating position/posture again as it is a lot different than the 73 XLH1000 Ironhead Sportster I restored and have been riding for the last few years.  I'm really happy to get the K1 back on the road again!

As promised, I'll finally be adding a picture to the "Let's see your SOHC4 on the road" thread.

EDIT:  Heck, I might as well post those pix here too as a good ending to this thread.   





Thanks again to everyone who's helped me in this journey with generosity, information, advice, suggestions and encouragement!
ZT

[denward17]

Congrats ZT, beautiful bike!

[Don R]

 Thanks for the report ZT.  I feel like I should make an install report but that's like paying ransom to a kidnapper.
  I'm glad to hear they sound good, that will be a big improvement over the CMS 341 pipes I have now.

[BenelliSEI]

Wow! Well done it looks just fabulous and even better out on the road! You’ve done a truly outstanding job. Enjoy it!

[MauiK3]

Beautiful, another one with a new lease on life!!

[ZTatZAU]

Thanks everyone, for your nice comments!
Coming from the likes of you, it means a lot to me.
ZT

[Don R]

 It's been a long unnecessary road with the Busso product. Thanks for blazing the trail with your set, personally I think any stress in the pipe/engine will relieve itself with a few heating cycles.
  My projects have veered away from the 4-4's. I do have my brothers one owner bike here that needs a set of pipes and my "for sale" K0 project may get the other set.

[ZTatZAU]

It's been a long unnecessary road with the Busso product. Thanks for blazing the trail with your set,...

I walked away from the pipes more than a few times, hoping to follow someone else's trail.
But you gotta do what you gotta do!

... personally I think any stress in the pipe/engine will relieve itself with a few heating cycles.

Personally, I think any concern over residual stresses, resulting from the manner in which I applied forces to the pipes, is a big nothing-burger!  If you apply a longitudinal force to the long leg of the pipe, the pipe will fail (or distort), likely at the upper bend, long before ever reaching a force that could damage or distort the engine or frame!

  My projects have veered away from the 4-4's. I do have my brothers one owner bike here that needs a set of pipes and my "for sale" K0 project may get the other set.

Keep us posted with updates on your Bussos, Don!
ZT

[Don R]

 I believe heat cycling will relax the pipes, I have a spider header for a turbocharger that was re-welded off the head and it pulled the pipes a lot. I made threaded spreaders to spread the pipes apart to get them on a head. At some point I'll build the real engine and am hoping the heat from running it will relax everything. I did give them a treatment with a maap gas torch but haven't checked the tension yet.

[ZTatZAU]

I believe heat cycling will relax the pipes...

Don!  There's no residual stresses to deal with here.  After pulling longitudinally on my pipes, as described above, and then releasing the ratchet straps, my pipes were already completely relaxed with the rear muffler sleeve holes all lined up nicely to where you could push the rear bolts through the frame by hand or with just a slight tap.

So what needs to be relaxed?
ZT

[Don R]

I believe heat cycling will relax the pipes...

Don!  There's no residual stresses to deal with here.  After pulling longitudinally on my pipes, as described above, and then releasing the ratchet straps, my pipes were already completely relaxed with the rear muffler sleeve holes all lined up nicely to where you could push the rear bolts through the frame by hand or with just a slight tap.

So what needs to be relaxed?
ZT

OK!  I assumed the bolts went in and were holding it in place, that's even better that it stayed in place. One less thing for me to concern myself with when I install a set.