Author Topic: low compression 1978 cb550k  (Read 610 times)

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Offline cado007

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low compression 1978 cb550k
« on: August 27, 2024, 05:21:00 PM »
I have a 1978 Honda CB550K 22000 miles all stock airbox  stock pipes pd46c carbs. factory settings on carbs with original brass.
I did the 3k tuneup and rebuilt carbs when I bought it 6 weeks ago. Unracked - ultrasonic cleaned and blew out with a compressor and replaced orings and felts. The compression was not great 100 on 1 and 2 and 125 on 3 and 4 when cold. I was told put miles on it so I did.
I had it running well started right up with choke on for 10 seconds  and pulled well thru all the gears I have put about 350 miles on it - doing 80 mile rides with no problem other than it won't idle well  under 1700 rpms . Since it would not idle well under 1700 rpms. I decided to pull the carbs again. I had aftermarket insulators on the engine side and I believed they were causing vacuum leaks. I did replace all intake orings.
Anyway I cleaned again carbs ( all original brass) and reinstalled and cylinder 2 would not get hot. I checked for spark ( yes there was) pull 2 bowl and cleaned jets again. I did get 2 to warm up once but not as hot as other 3. I compression tested 1. was now 125 and 2 was now 80psi - I did not test 3 and 4 as they were working great. I put a teaspoon of marvel mystery oil in cylinder 2 and tested again and it was worse. I am using a cheap amazon tester though. I did try or did vacuum sync carbs but I don't think it worked as 2 was not igniting. Again it had spark and  smelled like fuel. I put new plug in there and it came out looking new. Same plug held against motor great spark. So I guess is it time for a top end rebuild or are there other things to try first. I was going to recheck the valves. Someone suggested tapping in the #tappets with a piece of wood to dislodge carbon but I don't know if that is a good idea. I am not looking for a show or race bike - just something reliable and fun to ride on Sundays and run errands on- Thanks for any advice!

Offline denward17

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2024, 05:51:46 PM »
Can't comment on the compression issues, but what are your float levels like?

Did you by chance perform a clear tube test to make sure the fuel level was correct?

Offline cado007

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2024, 05:58:04 PM »
They are at 14.5 and I did the tube  test and it looked correct. It is confusing for the setting on this carb- I installed the floats at 12.5  which I believe is factory spec for PD46c. but I could not get it to start( might have been because of compression) so I redid them to 14.5 and it started. I had them at 14.5 and it ran fine for 350 miles just would not idle under 1700 well

Offline calj737

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2024, 06:01:34 PM »
Confirm you reused the stock brass, or at least the brass that was in the carbs before you owned the bike. You can bench synch the carbs and get them close enough that the bike should run well, maybe not perfectly, but well.

The drop in compression sounds more like valve clearance than “rebuild time”. Have you adjusted the valves and are you sure you did it correctly? Don’t obsess over the compression numbers; you need to focus on them being close to each other since compression testers vary by brand and expense.

Last thing to confirm for #2 not firing is the plug cap from the coil to 2/4. Make sure it’s seated properly and you’re using correct plugs.
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Offline cado007

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2024, 06:06:49 PM »
yes all stock original brass except for pilot jet on carb 1 - original was slightly bent ( the part with the holes that go inside) so I thought I should replace. I adjusted the cam chain and the valves recently but I will check again and I have new coils wires and plug caps. Plugs are new NGK D7EA

Offline cado007

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2024, 06:09:03 PM »
Oh I I did bench sync .

Offline calj737

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2024, 06:41:48 PM »
I adjusted the cam chain and the valves recently but I will check again
You would not be the first person to adjust valves then have the adjuster nut come loose. Remove the inspection caps for #2 and check the nut, and confirm that valve’s clearance.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline cado007

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2024, 06:50:40 PM »
just checked no loose nuts - engine side wiggled exhaust side tight- I will redo cam chain adjustment and valves tomorrow none the less.
thanks for your reply

Offline HondaMan

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2024, 09:01:30 PM »
Don't fret too much over the compression numbers until you've got it running pretty well and for a while (200 miles with good running, or similar distance). When the engines have this many miles they get 'unsettled' following a long sit and reawakening, which can send you down many doggie trails, chasing things that are not important, at least not just yet. ;)

First: you've got the touchy-est 550 carbs on your hands, so anything that isn't perfect makes them act like prima-donnas. This includes (interestingly enough) the quality of the gasoline in use, and how fast it burns - or not. For starters there, use Regular gas, not Midgrade or Premium (both of these will cause run-on after throttle shutoff with today's fuels, sometimes significantly). Also add a couple of ounces of oil (any oil will do) to the gas. You've mentioned the float levels are deeper than stock for the "C" carbs, so try setting the idle screws inward a little bit, like 1/8 to 1/4 turn less than stock setting. Due partly to today's fuels, this may become your normal setting, even at the normal 12.5mm float depth (then it might be just 1/8 turn extra inward).

The spark: I have not seen coils cause this sort of trouble on a bike, but they often get blamed. Make sure the new coils are within the spec of the bike's electrics, or you'll be introducing MORE trouble, not less. The coils must be in the range of 4.3 ohms to 5.0 ohms to work well with this bike's electrics. Coils of 3 ohms WILL overload the system and leave you with chronic low-battery troubles on top of the current issues.

Next: the spark timing. Make sure the timing for both the 1-4 and 2-3 points are reaching the full-advance point, not going further. Since you can't [yet] set them at idle speeds, this will have to do for now. If possible, loosen the 3 points plate mounting screws (top one last, please) and 'dial back' a little bit of retarded timing, just a couple of degrees will do. This will help it settle back to idle speeds (and probably die, since you haven't been able to set an actual idle speed). This is a temporary diagnostic step: once the real cause of the excessive idle speed is found, you'll be moving the timing back where it belongs.

And, finally: the springs on the spark advance are not helping you now. They have become very heat-softened (we called it 'sacked') and advance the timing WAY too soon. When this is added to modern fuels that burn too slowly, the result is usually a hanging idle in the smaller Fours. So, I'd advise this as the first step (which I would do if it were in my garage today): pull the spark advancer and cut off no less than 1/2 turn from each of the advancer springs, then reinstall them and make SURE they will pull the advancer cam all the way home when released. It usually takes at least 1 full turn off 1 coil and 1/2 of the other: more often the 550 needs 1 full turn cut off both springs to make them settle well. This will retard full advance to about 2500 RPM: 3000 RPM would be much better in the end.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline cado007

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2024, 05:02:03 AM »
THANKS HondaMan!

Offline cado007

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2024, 11:25:08 AM »
Hondaman - I just bought your book- Thanks for the discount code!
I just acquired a 1976 honda cb750f super sport so I am sure it will come in handy!
Best,
Damon

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2024, 12:24:03 PM »
Performing a compression test can be quite a hassle. Personally I never managed on my CB500. On syncing the carbs the other day, I was surprised to see a healthy 21-22 cm Hg underpressure on all 4. Also when I blipped the throttle, the movements of the dial was like it should be and did not indicate a problem.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2024, 08:38:59 PM »
Performing a compression test can be quite a hassle.

Boy, on the 500/550, you're not kidding! Especially #3... :(
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Flyin900

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Re: low compression 1978 cb550k
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2024, 05:28:19 PM »
I just did the same set and I did remove the metal intake manifolds that are attached to the head and sealed with O rings. Did you remove and refresh these O rings on the manifolds? Three of the four O rings were split on my setup and likely leaking. The bike was hard starting and erratic until warmed up, but no high idle like your getting.
It now starts immediately and idles well and runs nice and smooth out to redline. I need to do some final detail adjustments and syncing to finish the job.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2024, 05:33:50 PM by Flyin900 »
Common sense.....isn't so common!

1966 CL77 - 305cc - Gentleman's Scrambler
1967 CL175K0 - Scrambler #802 engine
1972 CB350F - Candy Bacchus Olive - Super Sport
1973 CB350F - Flake Matador Red - Super Sport
1975 CB400F - Parakeet Yellow - Super Sport
1976 CB400F - Varnish Blue - Super Sport
1976 GL1000 - Goldwing Standard
1978 CB550K - Super Sport
1981 GL1100 - Goldwing Standard
1982 CM450A - Hondamatic
1982 CB900C - Custom
1983 CX650E - Eurosport
1983 CB1000C - Custom X 2 Bikes now - both restored
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