Topic: old ATP turbo bench racing

[Don R]

 If you had an assortment of engines, a pretty complete ATP turbo kit and a cool looking raked and lengthened swingarm frame laying around, what engine would you put it on/in? 

 I've heard good things about turboing the stock F2 but also have a K6 case with a balanced crank, MTC steel rods a backcut F2 trans and a good K head. No usable turbo pistons but several early but worn cylinders to choose from to have bored? 
 Or a new set of Wiseco K model 64 or 65mm 12.25/1 pistons in the F motor?

 Any other daydreaming ideas? the end result is just to use what's under the bed  to assemble a street freak cb750.

[newday777]

Following to hear what you do Don. It should be interesting......

[seanbarney41]

come on Don!  You are old enough to know...

Turbos are for diesels!

no seriously...I don't know.  Seems to me like folks just get greedy with the boost and of course that is when stuff starts breaking fast and kids these days won't even look at an engine without hanging ten hairdryers off of it...

If I had those parts lying about, I guess I would have to try something too...

[BomberMann650]

Wish I had known about the relative altitude adjustments before i assembled mine.

At least the valves had clearance 😅

[scottly]

You just dial in 2 PSI more boost to make up for the 25.5 inches of mercury, instead of the 29.5" at sea level. (2"of mercury=1 PSI)

[Don R]

 In a previous discussion one of the experienced racers mentioned that his bike felt puny in the lower rpm's and didn't come alive until it got into boost. I'm thinking with E85 there might be more resistance to detonation and a guy could run more static compression.
  My old Rajay might not make a lot of boost anyway. I found graphite type header flange gaskets that fit the turbo this week.
 I need to have a fresh cylinder bored for a Wiseco 836 in the Rat Race so I'll probably see what Ken at CycleX has laying around. My old 836 turbo pistons have seized onto their rings. 

[Tracksnblades1]

In a previous discussion one of the experienced racers mentioned that his bike felt puny in the lower rpm's and didn't come alive until it got into boost. I'm thinking with E85 there might be more resistance to detonation and a guy could run more static compression.
  My old Rajay might not make a lot of boost anyway. I found graphite type header flange gaskets that fit the turbo this week.
 I need to have a fresh cylinder bored for a Wiseco 836 in the Rat Race so I'll probably see what Ken at CycleX has laying around. My old 836 turbo pistons have seized onto their rings.

If your old turbo pistons are good you might try a large hospital grade ultrasonic cleaner. The large ones can be really aggressive when you find the right frequency…

I’ve only heard good things so far with E85. Provided you go with an alcohol fuel system…

👍 more Static compression and timing…😇

[NitroHunter]

I love that we're only paying $3.50 a gallon for the E-85 we run in my pals Pro Street blown iron SBC, sure beats race gas and Methanol prices. And it's available at pumps around town.
As long as you're able to almost double the jetting volume and provide adequate fuel flow there is much upside to this idea. If I ever cobble my collection of parts together, that's how it'll be built, high compression turbo. Torque Monster that I can find fuel for away from home.
The E-85 fuel's threshold of detonation lets it work very well in very high cylinder pressure applications.
With those rods you can run higher compression pistons and enjoy the torque as opposed to the doggie-ness I had to live with lower CR.

[willbird]

I love that we're only paying $3.50 a gallon for the E-85 we run in my pals Pro Street blown iron SBC, sure beats race gas and Methanol prices. And it's available at pumps around town.
As long as you're able to almost double the jetting volume and provide adequate fuel flow there is much upside to this idea. If I ever cobble my collection of parts together, that's how it'll be built, high compression turbo. Torque Monster that I can find fuel for away from home.
The E-85 fuel's threshold of detonation lets it work very well in very high cylinder pressure applications.
With those rods you can run higher compression pistons and enjoy the torque as opposed to the doggie-ness I had to live with lower CR.

A bunch of the K series Honda drag n drive guys got into some E85 that was somehow bad during an event and smoked some engines. Never did hear exactly what the issue with it was.

[NitroHunter]

Bird thanks for bringing this up.
The brilliant Lake Speed jr, from Total Seal piston rings, had an in-depth look at E-85 available at the pump during one of his Engine Builders seminars... Findings were that, depending on many variables, it could range from 85-50+ ethanol and still be in state certified range. WTF... 
Without a doubt if I were going for serious power I'd purchase E-85 in the can from a reputable fuel manufacturer.
 We've been told by other local racers that this pump fuel we're getting is supposedly accurate... For the blown small block 10:5 Pro Street toy the max boost is relatively low at 17 psi and the mag timing is extremely conservative at only 26 degrees. Good Guys event cruising is doable, well the fuel consumption lump-lumping around is terrible, but the plugs say it wants some heat power but last Monday at Sonoma running 8.70's were safe and repeatable.
Knock on wood so far corrosion hasn't been an issue like running Methanol was in my pals funnycar. Spiderwebs of corrosion lines would grow overnight. That was a shocker, I'd never experienced that issue running nitro.

[Don R]

 I think the can of Q16 I just bought was $26.00 a gallon. It's the last one I'll be buying.

 We got burned on speed shop bulk gas once and gas station unocal "race gas" another time. The one time cost me an awesome set of ported cast iron chevy turbo heads, but Earnheart's heads cracked too. The other time just ruined a season points series for us.
 I've either bought a barrel or cans since. Anybody need a 5-gallon gas can? I got a few empties.

[NitroHunter]

I think the can of Q16 I just bought was $26.00 a gallon. It's the last one I'll be buying.

.
Ouch.
I remember riding to a sprint car guy's race shop and filling my bike from his pump with ERC 110 for a whopping $3.65 a gallon and whining about how expensive THAT was!
My pal's done a hydrometer check every time he's filled the E-85 jugs, so far they've read the same.
But we know that isn't necessarily an absolute, just that our current tuning will work with what he's getting right now
Knock on wood... 

[Don R]

 Here's the mock-up, it still needs pistons and a good primary tensioner. You can see the tube that runs under the intake, it might be a pathway for something very cold, it could be compressed something that cools the intake and then adds flow to spin the exhaust side of the turbine faster.

[BomberMann650]

Whats in the tube don?

Also, is there anyone that still makes a motorcycle sized water/methanol pump?  The car kits are kinda big.

[Don R]

 Nothing in the tube, it isn't connected to the intake ports. I can only assume it is there for intake cooling by a liquified gas or to convey fuel maybe from one side of the motor to the other?
 Good question on the methanol/water injection. I considered using a power jet added to the carb with methanol or E85.

[BomberMann650]

I've heard mixed reviews on liquid cooling the turbo.

Have seen the thunderjet be used as a wmi on draw through to some benefit.  But not the same effect as the high pressure manifold port system.

Im hoping to find a pump that isn't the size of a nalgene bottle to fit the build.  The AEM controller and jetting should be suitable for small engines.

[scottly]

One of the turbo Corvair guys came up with a simple system that used boost to pressurize the water/methanol tank, spraying the mix directly into the carb. The amount of mix was directly proportional to the amount of boost. The turbo Oldsmobile 215 aluminum motors also had a water/meth system to control detonation.   

[BomberMann650]

One of the turbo Corvair guys came up with a simple system that used boost to pressurize the water/methanol tank, spraying the mix directly into the carb. The amount of mix was directly proportional to the amount of boost. The turbo Oldsmobile 215 aluminum motors also had a water/meth system to control detonation.

Corvair guy sounds kinda clever.

[NitroHunter]

My home built incantation of boost controlled water / meth injection used a small aluminum tank pressurized from the intake manifold through a 10-ish psi spring loaded ball check valve (run nozzle borrowed from a pal's funnycar fuel system) and an obviously WAY too large of a jet drilled into the carb... when the boost hit it instantly flooded and flat shut the motor off. Sometimes your car buddies aren't the best source of help. I was done with that nonsense.
Pretty sure TJ Hofmeister got the correct pieces figured out.