Topic: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...

[Oly]

I'm gonna have to look into hanging bikes in my garage, looks to handy to pass up!

 It's nice for any work that needs to be done on the underside of the bike.
Just finished rebuilding the forks so I can start working on getting the front-end back on.

[Oly]

Shop envy!! Great shop, great bike!!

The bike is looking great. 

Thanks guys...
 With the weather here lately it's nice to have somewhere to go that's comfortable inside.

[Oly]

Your chain looks like it is getting “deep” into the drive sprocket. I usually replace sprockets and chains as a unit…… Ido like HondaMan’s suggestion of reusing the old chain for a few hundred miles to take the “edge” off new sprockets and then installing the new chain…..

I originally wasn't planning on using my old chain, but after seeing John's input and reading some of Mark's recommendations to use the old chain to break-in new sprockets, I decided to install the old chain to do just that.
  Will I have a problem if the old chain is installed in a rotational orientation different than it originally ran in? 
Because I wasn't planning on using it,  I lost the original directional orientation as it soaked in oil pan.
Thoughts?

[HondaMan]

Your chain looks like it is getting “deep” into the drive sprocket. I usually replace sprockets and chains as a unit…… Ido like HondaMan’s suggestion of reusing the old chain for a few hundred miles to take the “edge” off new sprockets and then installing the new chain…..

I originally wasn't planning on using my old chain, but after seeing John's input and reading some of Mark's recommendations to use the old chain to break-in new sprockets, I decided to install the old chain to do just that.
  Will I have a problem if the old chain is installed in a rotational orientation different than it originally ran in? 
Because I wasn't planning on using it,  I lost the original directional orientation as it soaked in oil pan.
Thoughts?

No, it won't curse you for using it backward, or the like.
The whole idea of it is to remove the nasty cast grit on modern sprockets, putting it where it won't hurt the new chain. We don't see machined sprockets anymore (other than their tapped holes and sometimes the center splines) because casting has become so much cheaper than machining now, and pretty accurate. It still leaves some surface grit, though: I just bought 2 new JT Sprockets and the teeth still have the slight grit in their valleys. That's the nasty part that wipes out quickly and ends up in the chain.

MIMs-metal casting might someday come to these sprockets, although I suspect it will make them very brittle if it does. It's a real cheap way to make parts of precise dimension without the grit, but the tradeoff is in non-elasticity in the final product. When we drop the clutch, putting 60+ HP into a 1" diameter hole with 1/8" tall splines, I suspect some of those splines won't appreciate that, leaving their footing behind...?

[Oly]

Your chain looks like it is getting “deep” into the drive sprocket. I usually replace sprockets and chains as a unit…… Ido like HondaMan’s suggestion of reusing the old chain for a few hundred miles to take the “edge” off new sprockets and then installing the new chain…..

I originally wasn't planning on using my old chain, but after seeing John's input and reading some of Mark's recommendations to use the old chain to break-in new sprockets, I decided to install the old chain to do just that.
  Will I have a problem if the old chain is installed in a rotational orientation different than it originally ran in? 
Because I wasn't planning on using it,  I lost the original directional orientation as it soaked in oil pan.
Thoughts?

No, it won't curse you for using it backward, or the like.
The whole idea of it is to remove the nasty cast grit on modern sprockets, putting it where it won't hurt the new chain. We don't see machined sprockets anymore (other than their tapped holes and sometimes the center splines) because casting has become so much cheaper than machining now, and pretty accurate. It still leaves some surface grit, though: I just bought 2 new JT Sprockets and the teeth still have the slight grit in their valleys. That's the nasty part that wipes out quickly and ends up in the chain.

MIMs-metal casting might someday come to these sprockets, although I suspect it will make them very brittle if it does. It's a real cheap way to make parts of precise dimension without the grit, but the tradeoff is in non-elasticity in the final product. When we drop the clutch, putting 60+ HP into a 1" diameter hole with 1/8" tall splines, I suspect some of those splines won't appreciate that, leaving their footing behind...?

Thanks Mark.  I was hoping it would be ok. 
Other than how many miles you put on the new sprockets w/ old chain, is there a way to gauge if the job is complete such as how the sprocket valley areas look??

[PeWe]

I'll might deburr my new sprockets with a Dremel before next chain change. Probably at next rear tire change.
Front sprocket with 17 teeth, quickly done. Rear with 48 a little bit more.

Can do it this winter too. Chain and sprockets are waiting in a box.

Chain with sprockets have then done ca 38.000 km. They did not get any special treatment when mounted. Only good chain lube now and then when needed.

Chain can be lifted some on the rear sprocket now. A little bit "rattly" sideways too.
Chain is a riveted model.

[Oly]

Making a little progress and finished up the rear brake assembly. 
Got rebuilt forks, rebuilt steering head with tapered bearings, triple tree and gauges mounted.

[Oly]

Working the front brake assembly now. 
Rebuilt master cylinder and started assessment of the two flexible hoses.  Tried to blow air thru them with no success.  The upper hose that attaches to the master cylinder has had a repair done on it by PO.  It never gave me any trouble for the 15K miles I put on it, but now that I'm unable to to get air thru it I'm looking at replacing both hoses.
 I'm looking for some help in confirming the configuration of the upper hose related to length and actual attach point fitting angles of each end, along with suggestions for a good source to procure them.
Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

[BenelliSEI]

Send an email to “RAYMOND” at APEX BRAKES. I usually lay them out (just as you have) on a clean piece of cardboard and take a few photos. Add a few lines with a marker and mark dimensions. Raymond has done so many cb750 lines he will recognize the ends and supply perfect matches. He can provide hoses in any colour, I usually just get black. It’s a Teflon hose, covered with metal braid and then vinyl in your colour choice. They are a little stiffer than the rubber, so I usually add 1/2” to the actual dimensions. He’s made me lots of hoses for all my bikes and race cars and does perfect work. He’s quick too. You won’t be disappointed!

[BenelliSEI]

P.S. The bike looks great!

[Kelly E]

I second Apex Brakes, almost all of our bikes have Apex lines.

[MauiK3]

Nice bike!

[Stev-o]

I second Apex Brakes...

Third...

http://www.apexbrakes.com/custom.asp

[Oly]

Thanks all... Apex Brakes it is! 
I'm in the process of setting up the hoses to photograph with dimensions like John has described, but I do have a few more questions.

Upper Hose (#45126-300-0020): As you can see above, the hose I have has been modified by PO with a 3 inch extension. Not including the extension, that hose measures 20.75 inches in length.  Looking at suppliers that have these for sale, they state they are 15.5 inches in length.  I have no other CB750 upper hoses to compare it to, so could someone please confirm the actual length you have ordered for your K1's.  Also, I see on the Apex Brake site they talk about the "Type of Angle" each end fitting is oriented to each other, so if there is an angle associated with this hoses fittings could someone identify that too?  (FYI, my bike has stock handle bars).

Lower Hose (#45125-300-010):  The hose I have measures 14 inches.  It has the 10mm straight banjo fitting at one end, but I'm looking at the Female end fitting and am wondering which of the ones described on the Apex it is?  (from what John says it sounds like Raymond will know which ones it is so more for my own knowledge)

I take it everyone gets new #90145-300-000 bolts and #90545-300-000 washers for these.  Any suggestions on the best place to procure them would also be appreciated.

[BenelliSEI]

That extension is strange and looks unsafe to me! If your hose reaches without it, use your dimension. I’ll measure my K1 the next time I’m in the shop.

Raymond usually supplies new banjo bolts and washers, but his are always a bit shorter than the originals, so I reuse the old ones with the new washers.

Just show clear pictures of the ends and he knows what to use.

[BenelliSEI]

From centre to centre on the banjo bolts, my top hose appears to be about 14.5". My bars look pretty standard

[Oly]

Thanks John for the details and everyone else for a their recommendations of Apex for these hoses!

 I went back and mounted the upper cable to the master cylinder so I could get the measurement I believe will work best, after cutting away the strange repair that was done by PO.
Here are the cardboard layouts I'm sending to Raymond @ Apex Bakes for these two hoses.
Thoughts?

[BenelliSEI]

Looks perfect. Make sure you tell him what colour you want. J.

[Oly]

FYI, Revised attachment Hose details slightly in prior post.

[BenelliSEI]

FYI, Revised attachment Hose details slightly in prior post.

Nice, you won’t be disappointed. I always find the banjo bolts Raymondsendsare a bit too short. I’ll be interested what he sends you since I never included that detail in my drawings.

[Oly]

FYI, Revised attachment Hose details slightly in prior post.

Nice, you won’t be disappointed. I always find the banjo bolts Raymondsendsare a bit too short. I’ll be interested what he sends you since I never included that detail in my drawings.

Yes, Thought I'd just include it to see if it makes a difference and if not I'm ready to use the originals, as required.

[Stev-o]

Here are the cardboard layouts I'm sending to Raymond @ Apex Bakes for these two hoses.
Thoughts?

These are much more detailed than the ones I sent him, you will have no issue getting exactly what you want. [I never did either]

BTW - he is in Canada but I seem to remember these shipping to me [in TX] from NY

[BenelliSEI]

Here are the cardboard layouts I'm sending to Raymond @ Apex Bakes for these two hoses.
Thoughts?

These are much more detailed than the ones I sent him, you will have no issue getting exactly what you want. [I never did either]

BTW - he is in Canada but I seem to remember these shipping to me [in TX] from NY

Steve….. I heard that from guys I race with in SCCA. I think he send batches to a US a shipper there. Clever and gets it done quick. His son is a kart racer, so they make lines for them too.

[Oly]

I contacted Raymond on Feb 10th and the hoses/bolts were on their way to me the evening of Feb 12th out of NY via USPS.

Raymond stated that there are two e-mail addresses to best contact him on: Raymond@apexbrakes.com and
havetodoit@hotmail.com.

FYI, I was at my local Honda dealer yesterday ordering some parts and decided to ask if they had the new Banjo Bolts I requested from Raymond and was shocked to hear they wanted $13/ea.  I got them from Raymond for $2/ea... hopefully they are the length I defined in the cardboard layouts.

[MauiK3]

Great service!