Author Topic: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...  (Read 3124 times)

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Online Oly

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2024, 10:29:00 AM »
Hi Oly, I have a similar story as yours and a similar K1, mine is an
11/70 and 18000 s/n higher than yours. That’s 6000 CB750K1s per month! And that is a lot of motorcycles.
I rode mine for several years (5000miles?) after a 15 year park, before I pulled the engine last time in 2007
 
 I have had my engine out a couple times: nuisance oil leaks at the point seal and pucks/head gasket drove the decision to pull the engine. Also replaced the internal chains, cam chain and primary chains, tensioners “while I’m in there”. Also hone and rings “while I’m in there” but end gaps were good. At 70000 miles there was some carbon in the exhaust ports but still at 100000 miles no smoke. At least, I don’t see any smoke in the mirror, and no smoke reports from following riders.
 Torque/retorque the head gasket was good advice.

My clutch was slipping badly even though the fiber plates measured good. I roughed the surface of the old plates and got temporary improvement. Finally new (supple) fiber plates have done the trick and the clutch now grabs like it should. I still have my original lifter plate and always loosen/tighten the four bolts slowly and evenly. Maybe I should have a heavy lifter plate on hand for my heirs, or the next guy that goes in there.

I’m not an engine builder, I have just the experience of one CB, this one.
My bike still goes from zero to illegal mighty fast without performance mods, not VRod fast, not CBR gixxer or Ninja fast, not even Z1 fast, but fast enough for this guy.

You’re doing a nice job Oly. Make sure you keep your measurements for the future.

Kevin, thanks for your response.  It's nice to find someone with a bike manufactured so close to mine.  I hope you don't mind if I bounce some questions related to your work on the bike.
1). Did you do any measurements on the valve stem to valve guide clearances?
2). Does your head have intake valve guides with oil seals and exhaust valve guides w/out oil seals?
3). I'm at the point in the engine disassembly where I need to determine if I should split the case and inspect for any issues.  How difficult was it to open and reassemble?

  FYI, I purchased the bike from the original owner and to my knowledge the engine had never been opened up, so I was surprised to find that there were no O-rings installed on the base of each cylinder.  I'm wondering if this possibly was what caused so much carbon build that I saw.
1971 CB750 K1
1967 BSA 441 Victor
1966 Yamaha 250cc YDS3c Big Bear Scrambler

Online Oly

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2024, 10:34:30 AM »
I just got a set of 550 pistons from Cruizin Image. It took 7 days because the post office gave them a free ride to the east coast before coming back to the west coast. I ordered something else the next day and it took 4 days.

Thanks Kelly.  Were you satisfied with the quality of the components?

Also, I see that you reside very close to me.  Have you ever shopped out any engine machine work in our area and if so could you forward me where you had it done?
1971 CB750 K1
1967 BSA 441 Victor
1966 Yamaha 250cc YDS3c Big Bear Scrambler

Offline Kelly E

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2024, 03:23:47 PM »
I just got a set of 550 pistons from Cruizin Image. It took 7 days because the post office gave them a free ride to the east coast before coming back to the west coast. I ordered something else the next day and it took 4 days.

Thanks Kelly.  Were you satisfied with the quality of the components?

Also, I see that you reside very close to me.  Have you ever shopped out any engine machine work in our area and if so could you forward me where you had it done?



My buddy has worked at the same shop for 35 years and now has recently set up a full shop in his garage. He has the cylinders and the new pistons at his place now. I confirmed the specs for him with Hondaman and now I'm waiting.
He's done quite a bit of other motor work for me like my 240hp 85' GMC S-15 originally 2.8L V6 and the twin MGB GT motors that I still need to build. ::)

Never Give Up - Never Surrender

The Rust Bros. Garage Collection
1974 Honda CB 550 K0                                            1971 MGB/GT
1975 Honda CB 400F Super Sport                          1972 MGB/GT
1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD                                   1985 GMC S15
1978 Kawasaki KL 250
1980 Suzuki GS 1100E
1982 Honda CB 900F Super Sport
1983 Honda CB 1100F
1984 Honda VF 700S Sabre
1984 Honda VF 1000F Interceptor
1990 Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans
1994 Kawasaki Concours ZG 1000A9
2005 Harley Davidson Fat Boy

Offline Kevin D

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2024, 04:33:35 PM »
Hi Oly, I have a similar story as yours and a similar K1, mine is an
11/70 and 18000 s/n higher than yours. That’s 6000 CB750K1s per month! And that is a lot of motorcycles.
I rode mine for several years (5000miles?) after a 15 year park, before I pulled the engine last time in 2007
 
 I have had my engine out a couple times: nuisance oil leaks at the point seal and pucks/head gasket drove the decision to pull the engine. Also replaced the internal chains, cam chain and primary chains, tensioners “while I’m in there”. Also hone and rings “while I’m in there” but end gaps were good. At 70000 miles there was some carbon in the exhaust ports but still at 100000 miles no smoke. At least, I don’t see any smoke in the mirror, and no smoke reports from following riders.
 Torque/retorque the head gasket was good advice.

My clutch was slipping badly even though the fiber plates measured good. I roughed the surface of the old plates and got temporary improvement. Finally new (supple) fiber plates have done the trick and the clutch now grabs like it should. I still have my original lifter plate and always loosen/tighten the four bolts slowly and evenly. Maybe I should have a heavy lifter plate on hand for my heirs, or the next guy that goes in there.

I’m not an engine builder, I have just the experience of one CB, this one.
My bike still goes from zero to illegal mighty fast without performance mods, not VRod fast, not CBR gixxer or Ninja fast, not even Z1 fast, but fast enough for this guy.

You’re doing a nice job Oly. Make sure you keep your measurements for the future.

Kevin, thanks for your response.  It's nice to find someone with a bike manufactured so close to mine.  I hope you don't mind if I bounce some questions related to your work on the bike.
1). Did you do any measurements on the valve stem to valve guide clearances?
2). Does your head have intake valve guides with oil seals and exhaust valve guides w/out oil seals?
3). I'm at the point in the engine disassembly where I need to determine if I should split the case and inspect for any issues.  How difficult was it to open and reassemble?

  FYI, I purchased the bike from the original owner and to my knowledge the engine had never been opened up, so I was surprised to find that there were no O-rings installed on the base of each cylinder.  I'm wondering if this possibly was what caused so much carbon build that I saw.

Oly 1-2-3
1) I didn’t take any measurements as you did, I did the liquid test and it passed. Also decarbonized, lapped valves, polished ports a bit, matched intake runners to ports.
2) Yes, seals on intake, no seals on exhaust.
3) Not too difficult to open the cases, a lot of bolts, a few through the top, most through the bottom case, and a bearing holder near the gear change mechanism. I only opened the cases to replace the points seal, cam chain, primary chains and tensioner.
-Remove top case bolts
-Remove transmission bearing holder
-Invert engine
-Remove bottom case bolts
-Remove bottom case

I don’t know about missing cylinder orings

71 CB750 K1
104,000 miles
Original Owner
———past———
70 SL100/125/150
70 Candy BlueGreen CB 750 K0
————————————————-
Former Honda parts kid/counter kid/do all
—————————————————————-
Whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right
Genius is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration

Online Oly

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2024, 06:06:35 PM »
Cruzinimage has cheap and functional pistons kits
+0.50 mm. The smallest bore after stock size.
They need tight total clearance below 0.025mm.
Last cylinder I left to shop got the message max 0.02.
My K2 got the K7/K8 variant for extra compression. Work fine

https://www.cruzinimage.net/page/2/?s=Cb750+piston

Their clutch is OK too.
My K6 had them with 836 and 80whp without slip. (Stiffer springs + washers)

PeWe... I thought that there were +0.25mm oversize piston/ring sets available.  Are they no longer manufactured or does Cruzinimage just not offer them?

1971 CB750 K1
1967 BSA 441 Victor
1966 Yamaha 250cc YDS3c Big Bear Scrambler

Online Oly

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2024, 08:40:42 PM »
Does anyone here have any experience with engines that do not have their O-rings installed at the bottom of each cylinder?  During the disassembly of my engine the O-rings that were suppose to be installed (p/n 91304-286-00) were missing and to my knowledge the engine was never open (I'm the second owner so PO could have done something I guess).
What would the symptoms be for these O-rings not being in place?
1971 CB750 K1
1967 BSA 441 Victor
1966 Yamaha 250cc YDS3c Big Bear Scrambler

Offline PeWe

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2024, 08:41:58 PM »
Cruzinimage has cheap and functional pistons kits
+0.50 mm. The smallest bore after stock size.
They need tight total clearance below 0.025mm.
Last cylinder I left to shop got the message max 0.02.
My K2 got the K7/K8 variant for extra compression. Work fine

https://www.cruzinimage.net/page/2/?s=Cb750+piston

Their clutch is OK too.
My K6 had them with 836 and 80whp without slip. (Stiffer springs + washers)

PeWe... I thought that there were +0.25mm oversize piston/ring sets available.  Are they no longer manufactured or does Cruzinimage just not offer them?
Honda stock spare part +0.25 mm alternative for another price, several times more.
The link above shows you +0.50, +1.0, +4mm (836)
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Online Oly

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2024, 09:13:51 AM »
Cruzinimage has cheap and functional pistons kits
+0.50 mm. The smallest bore after stock size.
They need tight total clearance below 0.025mm.
Last cylinder I left to shop got the message max 0.02.
My K2 got the K7/K8 variant for extra compression. Work fine

https://www.cruzinimage.net/page/2/?s=Cb750+piston

Their clutch is OK too.
My K6 had them with 836 and 80whp without slip. (Stiffer springs + washers)

PeWe... I thought that there were +0.25mm oversize piston/ring sets available.  Are they no longer manufactured or does Cruzinimage just not offer them?
Honda stock spare part +0.25 mm alternative for another price, several times more.
The link above shows you +0.50, +1.0, +4mm (836)

Thx PeWe.  I'd seen the NOS piston/ring sets for +0.25 oversize,  along with Yamiya's +0.25 sets for at least double plus that of Cruzinimage.  I was hopeful that there might be other alternatives out there I'd missed.  For the price of the Cruzinimage set, making the jump to +0.50 vs +0.25 is more than enticing.
1971 CB750 K1
1967 BSA 441 Victor
1966 Yamaha 250cc YDS3c Big Bear Scrambler

Offline PeWe

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2024, 10:01:21 AM »
Cruzinimage has cheap and functional pistons kits
+0.50 mm. The smallest bore after stock size.
They need tight total clearance below 0.025mm.
Last cylinder I left to shop got the message max 0.02.
My K2 got the K7/K8 variant for extra compression. Work fine

https://www.cruzinimage.net/page/2/?s=Cb750+piston

Their clutch is OK too.
My K6 had them with 836 and 80whp without slip. (Stiffer springs + washers)

PeWe... I thought that there were +0.25mm oversize piston/ring sets available.  Are they no longer manufactured or does Cruzinimage just not offer them?
Honda stock spare part +0.25 mm alternative for another price, several times more.
The link above shows you +0.50, +1.0, +4mm (836)

Thx PeWe.  I'd seen the NOS piston/ring sets for +0.25 oversize,  along with Yamiya's +0.25 sets for at least double plus that of Cruzinimage.  I was hopeful that there might be other alternatives out there I'd missed.  For the price of the Cruzinimage set, making the jump to +0.50 vs +0.25 is more than enticing.
Yamiya has +0.25 kit for $275US
Same manufacturer as Honda.

https://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=246_21_249_54&products_id=810

Honda pistons for $100$ each.

Change rings only can leak more oil when bores are worn oval, rings worn the same.
New rings will not fit.Hone will cause to wide clearance.

So get a set if 4 for $100 or $120 for a little bit mire compression (K7/K8) will  save money for the bore job and more
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Online denward17

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2024, 12:17:37 PM »
I can't help with long term reliability, but I have 2 sets of cruizinimage pistons in a 750 and a 550.  Used their ring sets as well.

So far they are good, both bikes run great, with ~500 miles on the 550 and ~2000 miles on the 750.

Online Oly

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2024, 03:09:39 PM »
I can't help with long term reliability, but I have 2 sets of cruizinimage pistons in a 750 and a 550.  Used their ring sets as well.

So far they are good, both bikes run great, with ~500 miles on the 550 and ~2000 miles on the 750.

Thx Denward.  The more input the better. I really appreciate it.
1971 CB750 K1
1967 BSA 441 Victor
1966 Yamaha 250cc YDS3c Big Bear Scrambler

Offline Kelly E

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2024, 05:27:10 PM »
Oly, I talked to my buddy today. He poured concrete at his house last weekend and said that he'll try to get my stuff done next weekend. I can't complain because he usually doesn't charge me anything so I'm not in a position to complain. 8)

After I get my stuff back I'll ask him about price and lead time for you.
Never Give Up - Never Surrender

The Rust Bros. Garage Collection
1974 Honda CB 550 K0                                            1971 MGB/GT
1975 Honda CB 400F Super Sport                          1972 MGB/GT
1977 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD                                   1985 GMC S15
1978 Kawasaki KL 250
1980 Suzuki GS 1100E
1982 Honda CB 900F Super Sport
1983 Honda CB 1100F
1984 Honda VF 700S Sabre
1984 Honda VF 1000F Interceptor
1990 Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans
1994 Kawasaki Concours ZG 1000A9
2005 Harley Davidson Fat Boy

Online Oly

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2024, 09:43:19 AM »
The ex guides without oil seal is a known reason for smoking at start-up.
Common to replace them to the later version.
Yamiya sell a complete kit of 8.

PeWe, What intake/exhaust valves do you prefer to use with these Yamiya valve guides?  Did you go with Yamiya's valves or a different source?  With new Yamiya valve guides and Yamiya valves, is reaming of the guides required for the right fit?
  Thanks again for all the valuable feedback you are providing!
1971 CB750 K1
1967 BSA 441 Victor
1966 Yamaha 250cc YDS3c Big Bear Scrambler

Offline PeWe

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Re: 1971 CB750 K1 Restoration Project- Restoring Still...
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2024, 10:54:39 AM »
The ex guides without oil seal is a known reason for smoking at start-up.
Common to replace them to the later version.
Yamiya sell a complete kit of 8.

PeWe, What intake/exhaust valves do you prefer to use with these Yamiya valve guides?  Did you go with Yamiya's valves or a different source?  With new Yamiya valve guides and Yamiya valves, is reaming of the guides required for the right fit?
  Thanks again for all the valuable feedback you are providing!
I have not used Yamiya's guides. Out of stock when I needed them. I should have ordered direct when I saw them first time.

I have stock Honda guides
Bought lower priced stock size valves  from Mike Rieck. Forum member MRieck. Ask him if he still have.

CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967