Topic: Martek440 ignition very hot, dropping one coil

[WaxhawFive]

This bike has been running so well lately, finally getting it really dialed in.  However, occasionally I am dropping one coil (the outer two plugs) and have to limp along until it will suddenly spring back to life on all 4.  I've checked the wiring and it's all clean, voltage good, steady at 14.1v (lithium battery) while the event is happening (I installed a tiny volt meter for troubleshooting).  Today after a ride with a couple drop out events I took of the ign. cover and found the Martek unit to be extremely hot, too hot to rest my fingers on.  Is it normally this hit just due to proximity to the engine, or would you think this might be a clue about why I'm dropping a coil?

[seanbarney41]

Unfortunately, at some point, these old ignition systems have gained a reputation for doing exactly what you describe.  I have no idea how many Martek's are still out there working correctly, but every time you hear about them around here, they are failing when hot.  I actually own one of these, and have never installed it because of these reports.

[WaxhawFive]

Well darn, but good to know.  This unit has been in the bike for my entire ownership, and reportedly long before that, so it's given good service.  Since I don't have an original points plate or any of the mechanical advance, I'll need a replace unit that is stand-alone, like the Martek.  I can't used a "hybrid" like Pamco or Hondaman, and I understand that the Dyna means I will also need their 50hm coils?  Heck, I might be interested in trying yours since I know it'll be a easy installation and will work with my coils.  Would you want to sell it?  The only other option I'm aware of would be a Boyer-Bransden? 

I have two new and uninstalled coils on my desk from 4into1, maybe I can swap them back if I buy a Dyna and new Dyna coils from them?

[calj737]

The Dyna does not require their coils.

It seems after some time, many of the electronic ignitions suffer from heat failures. Not sure why, but probably indicative of their heading for failure. I’ve seen other members run an aftermarket points cover and drill it for ventilation to aide in cooling. Might be worth a go if you stick with an electronic type…?

[scottly]

Today after a ride with a couple drop out events I took of the ign. cover and found the Martek unit to be extremely hot, too hot to rest my fingers on.  Is it normally this hit just due to proximity to the engine

Yes, they get pretty hot. Could you rest your fingers on the engine case, or was it just as hot? You could try running with no cover to see if it helps. The Martek has a pretty good reputation. Coils can also fail with temps.
You might want to use the voltmeter to monitor the supply voltage to the ignition instead of the battery, in case there is a bad connection somewhere.

[seanbarney41]

Well darn, but good to know.  This unit has been in the bike for my entire ownership, and reportedly long before that, so it's given good service.  Since I don't have an original points plate or any of the mechanical advance, I'll need a replace unit that is stand-alone, like the Martek.  I can't used a "hybrid" like Pamco or Hondaman, and I understand that the Dyna means I will also need their 50hm coils?  Heck, I might be interested in trying yours since I know it'll be a easy installation and will work with my coils.  Would you want to sell it?  The only other option I'm aware of would be a Boyer-Bransden? 

I have two new and uninstalled coils on my desk from 4into1, maybe I can swap them back if I buy a Dyna and new Dyna coils from them?

I pmed you back about selling mine.  I did forget to mention in the pm that my set IS used, but not by me.  I never ended up using it.  So, I have little idea how many miles or hours are on it, or really, if it even works.

[Deltarider]

There are more EI's that have their electronic components where they get hot - realise that the power transistor already gets hot by its switching - and possibly face humidity as well. Back in the day I therefore deliberately choose to accomodate my module where it is safe for temperature, humidity and vibrations. The pic may show a somewhat amateuristic approach, but I guarantee that that battery strap has prevented the box to move even one millimeter in all those years... I should add that I love simplicity.

[WaxhawFive]

@seanbarney41 I messaged you back. 
I think I'll go for a ride without the cover and see if there is any change.

[MRieck]

That Martek is about 50 years old.....might be time for an upgrade.

[calj737]

That Martek is about 50 years old.....might be time for an upgrade.

Don’t utter that phrase around Mrs Rieck, she might get the wrong idea! 

[willbird]

That Martek is about 50 years old.....might be time for an upgrade.

Don’t utter that phrase around Mrs Rieck, she might get the wrong idea! 

She might trade him in on a couple of 30's LOL

Bill

[WaxhawFive]

I just realized, upon disassembly, that this Martek unit is not "stand-alone" like I thought.  It still uses the stock advance mechanism.  So in that sense, I guess it's functionally the same as the Dyna and others.  And it's a good point that these units are very old.  However, the HAM crowd will fight you for the assertion that the modern stuff is any more reliable than the "older" electronics.  I'm a EE, so I guess I should be making my own, but I would rather be enjoying the last few weeks of this nice weather, so I need to order a replacement ASAP.  I guess I'll try a DYNA S because it seems to be sold everywhere for around $182, unless someone has a compelling argument for a different unit.

[WaxhawFive]

Well I happened to find a Dynatek DS1-2 listed on Amazon for $46 with next day delivery.  I'll report back if it's a scam or knock-off.  Apparently they have four more, have a look...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CP3B9328?psc=1&smid=A2YY6RCE0US4DU&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp

If it's legit, I'll buy another one to keep a spare.

[bryanj]

Thats a dyna knock off, also on ebay at about the same price

[Deltarider]

Thats a dyna knock off, also on ebay at about the same price

That price rises suspicion. Is it manufactured under license of Dyna or a blunt imitation? I don't like that blue connector. Can components stand vibrations, heat and humidity in the long run? Is the rotor machined a 100% true? The origin is probably China...

[newday777]

Well I happened to find a Dynatek DS1-2 listed on Amazon for $46 with next day delivery.  I'll report back if it's a scam or knock-off.  Apparently they have four more, have a look...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CP3B9328?psc=1&smid=A2YY6RCE0US4DU&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp

If it's legit, I'll buy another one to keep a spare.

The Key words in the listing
"New Ignition System Compatible with "

It is not a Dynatech as you said WaxhawFive

[WaxhawFive]

I read it as "compatible with Honda".  Yeah, certainly appears to be a knock-off.  Good thing it's cheap, probably not even worth the return hassle.  I'll let you know what shows up, and if it's decent, I'll even install it and see if it works. 

[bryanj]

I have a couple here, visually just as good as any other make. You just remove the cam from advancer and slip on supplied part.
MAY NOT WORK ON SOME 400 as they had 2 types of advancer with different internal bores on the cam