Author Topic: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot  (Read 542 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ts354

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 104
1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« on: September 16, 2024, 07:37:24 AM »
Been having a problem with the 81 CB650 non-custom not wanting to crank over when hot or warmed up after riding for a few minutes.  Symptoms are super slow cranking like battery is dead. But, once it cools down (about 20 min or so) it will crank fast enough to fire up.
I went to take the starter cover off to make sure the battery cable lead was good and snug on the starter and managed to pull the skin away from my thumbnail somehow.  Gave up on that.
Any ideas on why the slow or hardly any cranking while warm/hot?  Also,
does the cam chain tensioner nut need to be removed to get the starter cover off?  My new hang nail would like to know.

Offline fizzlebottom

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 447
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2024, 08:52:17 AM »
A few items to look at that tend to age poorly with the SOHC CB650s, as long as the battery is in great condition:

Ground connections. This is the first thing to look at, and often the most overlooked. Clean them up and make them SHINY.
Starter solenoid. It might not look worn out because all of the parts that wear out are internal. They're cheap to replace, and doing so with a modern unit will get you a modern fuse instead of the original kind.

After this, a valve adjustment done too tightly can definitely affect hot starting condition to some degree.

Lastly, the starter itself might be in rough shape. Actually having to replace starter brushes is less common than a lot of folks think, but there's more to the starter than brushes. I actually had to replace the internal copper bus bar that takes the solenoid connection to the windings. It is soldered to the inside of the bolt that you tighten the cable nut onto, and that had broken off internally. In opening the starter, I cleaned the ever living #$%* out of it and replaced the brushes while I was in there.

So, to summarize: clean every ground connection and battery connection, consider replacing an original starter solenoid, check valve adjustment to make sure they aren't too tight, and then look to see that your starter is in serviceable shape.
1982 CB650SC Nighthawk

Offline ts354

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 104
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2024, 10:02:43 AM »
Battery - New and good.
Solenoid  - New a year or so ago.
Ground Connections - I will check/clean/tighten.

Well unless someone states otherwise I guess the acorn nut on the cam chain tensioner needs to come off to get the starter cover off to inspect and clean the starter.  I forgot how the tensioner works, but I'll do some research and find out.

Offline rotortiller

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 850
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2024, 10:30:04 AM »
Starters can become heat sensitive, I would check the battery draw while in hot and cold situations then compare. It could be the starter just is not pulling the cranking amps  it should when hot. Maybe check the volts at battery when cranking in both situations to assist.

Offline fizzlebottom

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 447
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2024, 12:53:50 PM »
Battery - New and good.
Solenoid  - New a year or so ago.
Ground Connections - I will check/clean/tighten.

Well unless someone states otherwise I guess the acorn nut on the cam chain tensioner needs to come off to get the starter cover off to inspect and clean the starter.  I forgot how the tensioner works, but I'll do some research and find out.

The cam chain tensioner nut does not need to come off to access the starter at all. For that, you'll need to remove the left side crank cover, the 2 bolts holding the starter cover, and the 2 bolts holding the starter to the case. And then you can remove the nut holding the solenoid cable to the starter.

Go ahead and ensure your valve clearances first before pulling the starter, especially if you have already loosened the cam chain nut (and therefore technically adjusted the tensioner itself).

If you go through valves and adjust or confirm their clearances in spec, then head to that starter and see if there are any red flags.
1982 CB650SC Nighthawk

Offline ts354

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 104
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2024, 02:07:19 PM »
I haven't loosened anything yet, so I will go ahead and check the valve clearances this evening.  I remember checking the clearances a couple of years ago and man did I have a hard time.  I kept confusing the diagram with the actual engine because the diagram is reversed as far as the intakes and exhausts. Does anyone else have that problem, or just my "lisdexia" brain. lol

Also good to know how to get the starter cover off.  Now that you say the side cover has to come off first, I remember doing that now.   ::)  Jeez.

Ok, Thanks!

Offline fizzlebottom

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 447
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2024, 05:47:49 PM »
I haven't loosened anything yet, so I will go ahead and check the valve clearances this evening.  I remember checking the clearances a couple of years ago and man did I have a hard time.  I kept confusing the diagram with the actual engine because the diagram is reversed as far as the intakes and exhausts. Does anyone else have that problem, or just my "lisdexia" brain. lol

Also good to know how to get the starter cover off.  Now that you say the side cover has to come off first, I remember doing that now.   ::)  Jeez.

Ok, Thanks!

Ah yeah, it shows intake on top and exhaust on bottom, but cylinders are 1-4 left to right. Yeah that definitely isn't the best formatting. When you check (and likely adjust), make sure you're going with .004in min clearance for the exhaust valves instead of the book value of .003in. You can also increase intake valves to .003in.
1982 CB650SC Nighthawk

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,274
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2024, 07:45:36 PM »

After this, a valve adjustment done too tightly can definitely affect hot starting condition to some degree.

Tight valve lash would not cause the starter to crank the engine slower. In fact, it would let it spin faster if the valves didn't close completely, bleeding off compression. Don't go off on a wild goose chase. ;) Go back to the starter and/or battery.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2024, 07:48:38 PM by scottly »
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Tracksnblades1

  • My Son was a collegiate competition Trap, Skeet, and sporting Clay
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,854
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2024, 09:07:36 PM »
Make sure your centrifugal mechanical advance is backing off (springs or stuck) when engine is not running or idling slow.. Hot engines with moderate compression ratios can tax a starter when the timing is too advanced while starting..
A hot engine with an advancer stuck in the full advance position would test a starter while cranking even with stock compression ratios..

Don’t overlook the obvious. Load test the battery. If it’s junk you’re just chasing your tail..
If the battery tests good. Move to the connections and engine tune up specs, and etc…

Age Quod Agis

Offline Maltboy

  • Pitter-patter, let's git at 'er!
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 270
  • Making stupid mistakes since 1959
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2024, 09:36:57 PM »
My guess is the starter is going bad.

Offline ts354

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 104
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2024, 06:01:09 AM »
My guess is the starter is going bad.

My GUESS as well.  But I kind of want to check the valves anyway since I was struggling the last time I did it. 

I went home last night and sunk into my recliner and didn't make it out to the garage. I guess I'm in no real rush.  This problem has been going on since I got the bike several years ago and several batteries ago as well.  It doesn't leave me stranded, just makes me wait till it cools down some, so I just let it run during gas stops or when I've pulled over to check my route on my phone.

I will report back when I get the side cover off and get the starter out (checking ground/starter connections too) and after I check the valves.

Offline JimJamerino

  • Yay! I'm a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 265
  • Not rich enough to be "eccentric."
    • My CB650C build thread
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2024, 02:07:01 PM »
Let me know if you need a different starter. I am parting a couple of CB650s out.
~ Jim

formerly "emperorspartacus"

There are old bikers.  There are dumb bikers.  There are no old, dumb bikers.

My CB650C rebuild http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=74212.0

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,274
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2024, 02:15:52 PM »
Let me know if you need a different starter. I am parting a couple of CB650s out.
Hey Jim, you might want to get in touch with this guy:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,195575.0.html
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline JimJamerino

  • Yay! I'm a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 265
  • Not rich enough to be "eccentric."
    • My CB650C build thread
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2024, 03:19:09 PM »
Let me know if you need a different starter. I am parting a couple of CB650s out.
Hey Jim, you might want to get in touch with this guy:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,195575.0.html
I saw that thread. I’m in South Dakota, plus I don’t trust the bearings in either of my spare engines.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
~ Jim

formerly "emperorspartacus"

There are old bikers.  There are dumb bikers.  There are no old, dumb bikers.

My CB650C rebuild http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=74212.0

Offline kerryb

  • Not a very
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,150
  • 78 750k 74 cb550k, '83GL1100 FXSTC, 1979 Wilmac
Re: 1981 CB650 Slow crank when hot
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2024, 11:11:29 AM »
I had a similar situation on my old goldwing (83), and after rebiulding the starter as well as other fixes, the problem was corrosion on the mount where the starter gets it’s ground connection.  So I suggest pulling the starter to clean the grounding points where it touches the engine case.  It’s easier than checking valve lash.
intrigued by the wail...seduced by the scream.